quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
Is it still legal to sell an AR pistol? I'm thinking of just selling it and sticking with my full size ARs

As far as I've seen, you can still own, sell, or buy an AR pistol. You can still own, sell, or buy a brace. You just can't put a brace on an AR pistol, and you might be deep in some gray areas selling them together.

Fifth Circuit grants injunction against ATF's pistol brace rule
By Cam Edwards | 2:30 PM on May 23, 2023

https://bearingarms.com/camedw...e3e8139f308bd8a1cb93

A breath of fresh air in a smoked filled room!!

quote:

Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
A breath of fresh air in a smoked filled room!!

Did you read the article?

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Fifth Circuit grants injunction against ATF's pistol brace rule
By Cam Edwards | 2:30 PM on May 23, 2023

https://bearingarms.com/camedw...e3e8139f308bd8a1cb93

"As to the Plaintiffs in this case..." It is not clear at this point about who is actually covered by the order.

I saw this last night. The interesting summary for me is that the ATF official testified to Congress that all that people have to do is to remove the brace from the pistol to be in compliance. But the latest email from the ATF appears to reverse what the ATF director testified in Congress. Either the guy knowingly lied to Congress or they could say he changed his mind afterwards.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:
I saw this last night. The interesting summary for me is that the ATF official testified to Congress that all that people have to do is to remove the brace from the pistol to be in compliance. But the latest email from the ATF appears to reverse what the ATF director testified in Congress. Either the guy knowingly lied to Congress or they could say he changed his mind afterwards.

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/V7GfjStg4Oo" title="YouTube video player" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

He was the Director of the ATF, not just some guy. So he lied under Oath or those under him didn't know what he was going to say to Congress.

A political appointee that lies. What a shocker. Fuck him and fuck the ATF goons.

Link

Federal court deals blow to ATF pistol brace rule ahead of gun accessory registration deadline Story by Chris Pandolfo • 1h ago

A federal appeals court has temporarily blocked the Biden administration from fully enforcing new regulations on pistols with stabilizing braces, gun accessories that President Biden has called "especially dangerous" after they were used in several mass shootings.

The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals on Tuesday enjoined the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives from enforcing its new rule against gun owners and Second Amendment groups who filed a lawsuit challenging the regulation. The temporary injunction comes days before a deadline for individuals to register their pistol braces with ATF, destroy them, or remove the accessories from their weapons. Those that do not comply with the regulation by May 31 will be forced to pay a fee.

Gun rights groups have argued in court that the stabilizing brace rule violates the Constitution by requiring millions of gun owners to register their weapons. The Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC), one of the plaintiffs in the case, has called the rule "onerous and unconstitutional." FPC brought the case to the Fifth Circuit after appealing a lower-court order from a Texas judge who declined to block enforcement of the rule while the challenge proceeds through court.

The stabilizing brace rule was introduced as part of the comprehensive gun crime strategy Biden announced in April 2021 in response to the massacre at a grocery store in Boulder, Colorado, where a gunman used a firearm with a stabilizing brace to kill 10 people. In 2019, another mass murderer used a stabilizing brace in a shooting in Dayton, Ohio, that killed nine people.


ATF defines stabilizing braces as an accessory "that provides a surface area that allows the weapon to be fired from the shoulder, so long as other factors that indicate that the firearm is designed, made, and intended to be fired from the shoulder."


ATF's rule, which was finalized on Jan. 13, categorizes pistols with attached stabilizing braces as short-barreled rifles, which are heavily regulated by Congress because they are both accurate and concealable, making them dangerous in the wrong hands. Biden has accused the gun industry of attempting to circumvent federal regulations by selling stabilizing braces, which he and his administration claim can "essentially convert a pistol into a short-barreled rifle."


At least three million guns with stabilizing braces are in circulation in the U.S., according to the ATF. Estimates by the Congressional Research Service indicate there are currently between 10 million and 40 million stabilizing braces in circulation.

Second Amendment advocates dispute the government's characterization of stabilizing braces, pointing out that the accessories were designed to help disabled combat veterans continue to enjoy recreational shooting. They also have argued ATF previously said the addition of a stabilizing brace does not transform a pistol into a long gun in a ruling made a decade ago.

The full impact of the court's decision wasn’t immediately clear. The order applied only to the plaintiffs in the case: two gun owners, a company that makes pistols with stabilizing braces, and a gun-rights group. The appeals court did not say whether the rule was blocked for others, including people who buy the guns from the company, Maxim Defense Industries, and members of the Firearms Policy Coalition.


"We are very excited and encouraged by the Fifth Circuit's decision this morning," said Cody J. Wisniewski, senior attorney for constitutional litigation at FPC Action Foundation. "We intend to ask the court for additional information about who is covered under the injunction, but cannot stress enough just how important this decision is. The fight is far from over, but this is a huge victory in the battle against the ATF's unconstitutional and unlawful brace rule!"

The Department of Justice and ATF did not immediately respond to requests for comment.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:

quote:

Originally posted by GT-40DOC:
A breath of fresh air in a smoked filled room!!

Did you read the article?

I certainly did.....and I understood it.....how about you?

So its not legal to just take off the stock and have it be a pistol again? Confusing as hell...

^^^Confusing as hell...Of course it is! Though the ATF Director said (testifying before Congress) you 'could' do just that, and only that to be in complete compliance...

It's simple- the ATF has no business- and never has- making any sort of "rulings" on things such as this, but what's worse if they look like the ass-clowns they are when they contradict and keep changing their own rulings.

It's unconstitutional dumbfuckery exceptional even for the traditionally dull-witted bureaucrats of the US government.

They look like Three Stooges fools because that's what they are, with their unconstitutional power grabs and their inability to exhibit any sort of consistency, with the exception of always looking like they hate the American public.

Codified law should be used to make determination in matters such as this, and the ATF's stupid meddling and spewing of what seem to be personal opinions maquerading as regulations needs to cease.

^^^TRUTH...Every bit of that!

quote:

"We are very excited and encouraged by the Fifth Circuit's decision this morning," said Cody J. Wisniewski, senior attorney for constitutional litigation at FPC Action Foundation. "We intend to ask the court for additional information about who is covered under the injunction, but cannot stress enough just how important this decision is. The fight is far from over, but this is a huge victory in the battle against the ATF's unconstitutional and unlawful brace rule!"

I find both articles (downtownv's and HRK's) about the ruling very strange. I'm not a lawyer, but I've never seen a case where an injunction is granted only for members of a coalition or residents of the circuit court's jurisdiction when it's a nationwide issue affecting millions of people.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:

quote:

"We are very excited and encouraged by the Fifth Circuit's decision this morning," said Cody J. Wisniewski, senior attorney for constitutional litigation at FPC Action Foundation. "We intend to ask the court for additional information about who is covered under the injunction, but cannot stress enough just how important this decision is. The fight is far from over, but this is a huge victory in the battle against the ATF's unconstitutional and unlawful brace rule!"

I find both articles (downtownv's and HRK's) about the ruling very strange. I'm not a lawyer, but I've never seen a case where an injunction is granted only for members of a coalition or residents of the circuit court's jurisdiction when it's a nationwide issue affecting millions of people.

Similar thing happened in the bump stock injunction. It only affected states within the 5th circuits jurisdiction. Justice Department recently appealed the 5th circuit ruling on bump stocks to the Supreme Court.

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
So it’s not legal to just take off the stock and have it be a pistol again? Confusing as hell...

Yea it’s legal…until these assholes change the rules again. Now the Asshole Tobacco and Firearms goons are saying that you must destroy or turn in braces again- even though the head asshole went before Congress and said you just have to remove it. It’ll be the bump stock all over again- they will get zero compliance.

Next, they’ll be looking to try and force registration of ALL scary guns in the same manner they did with the SBR shenanigans. Free tax stamps all around! Until they decide to outright ban them at which time they’ll have a list of who to visit. If they want Waco on the national level that is…

No one will know what actually is and is not legal until someone gets charged with violating the rule and goes to trial over it. But since they're not exactly breaking down doors over these items, I think that will be a while. But would anyone hear want to be the test case?

These SOBs need to be disbanded and sent to work in convenient stores.