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ATF proposing to ban/restrict pistol “braces.” Very short comment period: Please get involved. Login/Join 
Member
posted Hide Post
I would summarize the situation as follows:
- if you had in your possession on 1/31 a braced pistol that has now been deemed an illegal SBR...
- You can EForm1 it with a waiver of the $200 tax, no requirement to engrave it (assuming it has mfg. markings), no 922r requirement, and no requirement to wait till the Form1 is approved to use it as an SBR -OR- you can reconfigure it to not be an SBR. All by 5/31.
- Once an approved SBR you can reconfigure it in any way you want, different stock, barrel length, caliber etc. etc. (side note and personal opinion since the ATF has said they won't prosecute you for an illegal SBR I think you can do all those changes once you have submitted the EForm1, what's the difference what configuration your illegal SBR is in?)

That's it in a nutshell. ANYthing else is outside the rule itself.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11050 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
I would summarize the situation as follows:
- if you had in your possession on 1/31 a braced pistol that has now been deemed an illegal SBR...
- You can EForm1 it with a waiver of the $200 tax, no requirement to engrave it (assuming it has mfg. markings), no 922r requirement, and no requirement to wait till the Form1 is approved to use it as an SBR -OR- you can reconfigure it to not be an SBR. All by 5/31.
- Once an approved SBR you can reconfigure it in any way you want, different stock, barrel length, caliber etc. etc. (side note and personal opinion since the ATF has said they won't prosecute you for an illegal SBR I think you can do all those changes once you have submitted the EForm1, what's the difference what configuration your illegal SBR is in?)

That's it in a nutshell. ANYthing else is outside the rule itself.


Thank you for the always good analysis.
 
Posts: 829 | Location: Baltimore, MD | Registered: March 29, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Plus or minus whatever your silly State rules put you in for the new SBR situation. Like MD or CT or IL.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11050 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gone to the Dogs
Picture of tomgun
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I guess I missed it, but I’m still not clear on what it all means for imported pistols. Was that all just YouTube BS or????
 
Posts: 1698 | Location: Lake Tapps, WA. | Registered: June 08, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
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Yes, just the ramblings of guntubers. The ATF has since clarified, both in a Q&A at SHOT and online in their FAQ, that 922r doesn't apply here, and imported pistols with braces can still be registered like any other.

From the FAQ at https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-...ted12523pdf/download :

quote:
I POSSESS A PISTOL, WHICH WAS IMPORTED AND THEN SUBSEQUENTLY EQUIPPED WITH A STABILIZING
BRACE. DOES 18 U.S.C. § 922(R) APPLY TO MY FIREARM?

• No. Section 922(r), in relevant part, makes it unlawful to assemble from imported parts a
semiautomatic rifle that is otherwise not importable. The implementing regulations of the GCA
at 27 CFR 478.39 provides that a person may not assemble a semiautomatic rifle using more
than 10 of the imported parts listed in the relevant paragraphs of the regulation. As discussed
in section IV.B.8.e of the final rule, the criminal violation under section 922(r) is for the
“assembly” of the semiautomatic rifle; therefore, no modification of such firearm would cure
the 922(r) violation because the “assembly” has already occurred. Accordingly, a person with
an imported pistol that was subsequently equipped with a “stabilizing brace” will have the
same options as anyone else under the final rule. Should that person choose to register the
firearm, no further modification of the firearm with domestic parts is required.
 
Posts: 32633 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gone to the Dogs
Picture of tomgun
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Thank you for that clarification RogueJSK
 
Posts: 1698 | Location: Lake Tapps, WA. | Registered: June 08, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm not a fan of this whole mess and am uncomfortable about it personally, but for many guns its a complete home run...you don't have to engrave it, you don't have to deal with 922r, you don't have to pay for the stamp, and you can continue to use it as an SBR till the ATF gets around to approving your application. NONE of which would be true for a normal SBR application.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 11050 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted Hide Post
^^^^^ And if it sounds too good to be true....


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country

Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan

"Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle
 
Posts: 30549 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
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I am under the impression that lawsuits on this would be filed left and right. Where are they? YT so-called legal experts claiming this and that means jack shit.


Q






 
Posts: 26725 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
I find all of this impossible to unravel.
 
Posts: 108042 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
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[skepticism engaged] I’m with Balzé on this…[]

It sounds really good, and seems easy, but….there’s a tingly im getting



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein

“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
 
Posts: 11351 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
"Member"
Picture of cas
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quote:
Originally posted by hrcjon:
Plus or minus whatever your silly State rules put you in for the new SBR situation.


No SBR's in NY. Do it you're a felon, don't you're a felon.

(mostly hypothetical of course, most of the guns people braced where already illegal and you couldn't own them anyway. I was temped with non semi-auto project ideas a time or two, but never followed through)
 
Posts: 21153 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His Royal Hiney
Picture of Rey HRH
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I'm normally a half-empty glass person but, in this case, I'm seeing the situation as a half-full glass given the Bruen ruling.



"It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946.
 
Posts: 19783 | Location: The Free State of Arizona - Ditat Deus | Registered: March 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So, let's see if I've got this straight. I electronically notify the ATF, in writing with photos, that I am in felony possession of an NFA item and then wait for them to tell me it's OK this time but don't do it again?

Sorry, but as Grandpa used to say, "This dog don't hunt".


____________
Pace
 
Posts: 684 | Location: in the PA woods | Registered: March 11, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diablo Blanco
Picture of dking271
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I’ve pretty much stayed out of this thread checking in from time to time. Not a constitutional lawyer, but has anything changed from the USSC ruling in the United States V Miller where it was determined the 2nd amendment does not guarantee you the right to own a short barreled shotgun. It was my understanding that many took the precedence set in that case to mean NFA guns are not protected broadly under the 2nd amendment.

I seem to recall not that many years ago, the ATF changed an opinion on destructive devices, specifically something to do with grenade fuses. People that registered and paid the $200 tax stamps, claimed to have agents come and seize the item they had legally registered. I seem to recall USA V Miller as the foundation of the decision. I didn’t pay very close attention, so I may have it wrong but I believe that’s the main reason the NRA dug in its heals on classifying scary guns as NFA. This whole thing is impossible to unravel and yeah it sounds to good to be true.


_________________________
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping it will eat him last” - Winston Churchil
 
Posts: 2993 | Location: Middle-TN | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shall Not Be Infringed
Picture of nhracecraft
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by pace40:
So, let's see if I've got this straight. I electronically notify the ATF, in writing with photos, that I am in felony possession of an NFA item and then wait for them to tell me it's OK this time but don't do it again?

Sorry, but as Grandpa used to say, "This dog don't hunt".

Well, I'm not 100% sure you have it straight, so I gotta ask...

As you don't specify, re: photos, are you talking about the firearm, which is now deemed by the ATF to be an SBR, or the 'passport photo' that needs to be provided, either on the Responsible Person Questionnaire in the case of a Trust, or w/ the Form 1 if filing as an individual? I ask as the ATF is NOT demanding photos of every firearm (now SBR) one chooses to Form 1 during the amnesty period, though they don't rule it out requesting such photos. I presume they'd only require photos to be submitted if the info on the Form 1 doesn't 'add up' and/or make sense.

And now that they've now changed their minds on the legality of use of Pistol Braces for the THIRD TIME (Officially it was yes that's legal, then it was NOT Legal if you do that, then NO Problem go ahead and do that if you want, to THAT'S an Illegal SBR!) who's to say this 'rule' is the final answer. Unfortunately, due to their track record, many (most?) are justifiably inclined to not trust the ATF at all here, and that I understand.

Regardless, let me say that I believe this is Clearly UNCONSTITUTIONAL OVERREACH by the ATF, and that they are essentially MAKING LAW out of whole cloth, bypassing Congress and subverting the legislative process! Unfortunately the ATF has a LONG track record of 'making things up' as they see fit! This SHOULD be overturned by the Courts...Where the hell are the Lawsuits??

Honestly though, THE biggest issue with this UNCONSTITUTIONAL OVERREACH as I see it, is that for the MILLIONS of Law Abiding Gun Owners living in commie ban states, where you can't even own an AR let alone an SBR, there are ZERO Legal options, but for injunctive relief by the Courts! Mad

At least in PA you 'currently' have options... Wink


____________________________________________________________

If Some is Good, and More is Better.....then Too Much, is Just Enough !!
Trump 2024....Save America!
"May Almighty God bless the United States of America" - parabellum 7/26/20
Live Free or Die!
 
Posts: 9047 | Location: New Hampshire | Registered: October 29, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by nhracecraft:
As you don't specify, re: photos, are you talking about the firearm, which is now deemed by the ATF to be an SBR, or the 'passport photo'


Oh, I'm talking about sending them my picture along with a statement that I'm a felon.

In March of 2017, a letter to SB Tactical's attorney from the ATF said,

"Therefore, an NFA firearm has not necessarily been made when the device (referring to the brace) is not re-configured for use as a shoulder stock - even if the attached firearm happens to be fired from the shoulder."

In January of 2023 pistols with attached braces are now NFA firearms whether they are fired from the shoulder or not.

Now I'm supposed to believe them when they offer amnesty? If you look up "fickle" in the dictionary, you see the ATF logo.

I'll pass. As I said a few pages back. I've removed the brace and destroyed the attachment method. This needs to play out in court.


____________
Pace
 
Posts: 684 | Location: in the PA woods | Registered: March 11, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
I am under the impression that lawsuits on this would be filed left and right. Where are they? YT so-called legal experts claiming this and that means jack shit.


A quick search turned up these. There may be more but I figured this was enough for now.

https://www.firearmsnews.com/e...sue-atf-brace/468760

Firearms Policy Coalition Files Lawsuit Over ATF's Pistol Brace Rule


https://www.thecentersquare.co...12-4375e6702bee.html

Two from Wisconsin sue ATF over new stabilizing brace rule


https://www.washingtonpost.com...istol-brace-lawsuit/

Veterans sue Biden Justice Dept. over pistol brace restrictions

https://www.gunowners.org/na02012023/

Our attorneys are working on filing a lawsuit against the ATF to stop them from enforcing this unconstitutional pistol ban and collecting personal information about you and your firearms.

We plan to file as soon as possible. But we’re counting on your support to marshal the vital resources we need for the upcoming court battle.
 
Posts: 10626 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Yew got a spider
on yo head
Picture of DoctorSolo
posted Hide Post
I was planning on doing an SBR sooner or later. I might just bite the bullet and do it now.

In any event, this amnesty tripe sounds hasty and I'll probably dis-assemble and regular eF1 with a real stock. Going that route affords protection by the NFA act, and I'm already on that list. This new amnesty thing puts you on a new, more legally ambiguous list and then what?

I guess I'm licking boots, either way!

May as well send some GOA lawyers a Benjamin as an FU to the ATF in the meantime...
 
Posts: 5180 | Location: Colorado Springs | Registered: April 12, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No, not like
Bill Clinton
Picture of BigSwede
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No comprendo



 
Posts: 5375 | Location: GA | Registered: September 23, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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