I agree with the remarks about Kerry above. He tells Iran sanctions will be lifted if they can provoke Trump into doing something rash. A win-win for Dem/commmies and for Iran.

As Trump has held off, he can always keep the sanctions going until Iran complies with everything, plus pays the US for the shot down drown.

quote:

I believe Iran is really looking to put an end to this, one way or another. They want to be the "big dick" in this region and are ready for a shooting war

I'd think that if this were true, they would have challenged Israel (and I mean really challenged)a long time ago. Every time they've even slightly fucked with the Israelis, they've had their asses stomped.

If anything, I believe Iran would like to precipitate a real shooting war if they can get a major player like the Russians involved on their side.

Iran's plan is, and has always been, to take by proxy.

Iran is a Jackal. One day, the lion will, show the jackal who he is.

We have the ability to respond while sticking to the weinberger doctrine. We've done it in Syria and many other places.

I don't say stop at bombing their defense capability. Knock out their power stations, bridges, telecommunications, and pipelines.

And walk away.

quote:

Originally posted by c1steve:
I agree with the remarks about Kerry above. He tells Iran sanctions will be lifted if they can provoke Trump into doing something rash. A win-win for Dem/commmies and for Iran.

Kinda telling isn't it that the Dem's and a devout enemy of the US are allies working together against the currently elected president of the US.

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
We have the ability to respond while sticking to the weinberger doctrine. We've done it in Syria and many other places.

I don't say stop at bombing their defense capability. Knock out their power stations, bridges, telecommunications, and pipelines.

And walk away.

I think that's a fool errand and something the US needs to be very careful with. Doing what you suggest could very well leave us in a worse situation in the region than we're in right now. Either kill the bear or leave it alone, but poking at it isn't a good approach.

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql: We've done it in Syria and many other places..

Syria was, and still is, a shit show. Hope the Government never uses that as a good example!

Trump refuses to take the bait mullahs (and Democrats) hoped he would

By Thomas Lifson

Because the first law of progressive politics today is "Thou shalt say nothing positive about Donald Trump," few if any on the Left are hailing his holding off on attacking Iran in retaliation for shooting down an armed drone as statesmanlike restraint. Citing an anonymous "senior administration official," The New York Times reported last night:

President Trump approved military strikes against Iran in retaliation for downing an American surveillance drone, but pulled back from launching them on Thursday night after a day of escalating tensions.

This morning, the president confirmed this in a Twitter thread:

Donald J. Trump ✔
@realDonaldTrump

....On Monday they shot down an unmanned drone flying in International Waters. We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights when I asked, how many will die. 150 people, sir, was the answer from a General. 10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not....

Replying to @realDonaldTrump

....proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone. I am in no hurry, our Military is rebuilt, new, and ready to go, by far the best in the world. Sanctions are biting & more added last night. Iran can NEVER have Nuclear Weapons, not against the USA, and not against the WORLD!


The shared goal of the mullahs and the Democrats was to create a no-win situation for the president: if he attacks Iran, he risks being drawn into a shooting war, a move that is not likely to be popular and could easily cost him his re-election. It could also very likely drive a wedge between the United States and its allies that are cooperating in the sanctions against Iran that are seriously hurting it. That is the mullahs' goal, and they are more than happy to risk loss of life and facilities in order to achieve it.

For the Democrats, the prime goal is something to criticize. And they are attacking Trump for even considering launching an attack, while the Morning Joe crew today on MSNBC trashed him for vacillation.

The president clearly is in a situation requiring he play 3- or 4-dimensional chess. He has to deal with Democrats anxious to attack him no matter what he does; our allies who want Iranian oil and markets for their goods; the mullahs who want nuclear weapons and the end of sanctions and friction among our allies; and his base, including many hawks who crave retaliation if not war.

Because Obama's JCPOA Iran deal ensured that the mullahs would get nukes ten years after it began, it was unacceptable. Trump knows that, but Democrats ignore it.

So long as he can avoid war, time is on Trump's side, as the sanctions are strangling Iran. He's offered the mullahs forsaking regime change as a goal, but clearly wants something in return for that offer, probably abandonment of their nuclear arsenal and a robust inspections regime to verify it. That is not something they want, but his job is to make it the better option they face.

We live in interesting times, I am afraid. My guess is that the mullahs will escalate. My further guess is that Trump will find means other than a conventional military attack to retaliate.

But honestly, it's only a guess.

https://www.americanthinker.co...hoped_he_would_.html

China gets quite a bit of oil from Iran, as we are in talks with China, screwing up their oil supplies for now would be a bad idea. Trump knows what he is doing, he’s playing chess, others are sticking crayons in their eye. He will get back at the right time, in his own way, meanwhile Iran is going to be worried every minute of when and where retaliatory action are going to come from.

I'm all for thumping Iran, but Trump was correct in calling it off with those many expected casualties.

Next time, the gloves can come off.

^ We gave up giving them a bloody nose for them needing an amberlamps next time

In Donald Trump's tweet, he said

"We were cocked & loaded to retaliate last night on 3 different sights"

"10 minutes before the strike I stopped it"


assuming "3 diff sites"

A good decision to stop. Must have been some adrenalin flowing on some navy ships.

https://www.breitbart.com/midd...after-downing-drone/

The rogue Islamic government of Iran petitioned the United Nations on Friday to take action against the United States after Iranian military forces shot down an American surveillance drone.

Tehran claims the drone had made an unauthorized entry into Iranian airspace, violating international law. President Donald Trump referred to the Iranian attack as a “mistake” and American officials released video footage proving that the drone was legally present in international airspace when Iran shot it down.

Iranian Ambassador to the U.N. Majid Takht Ravanchi urged U.N. Secretary-General Antonio Guterres to bring the “very dangerous and provocative act” of the United States of flying the drone to the Security Council, where allies China and Russia could presumably take some action against Washington. Ravanchi called the drone’s flight a “blatant violation of international law” but stopped short of specifying what sort of action he hoped the U.N. would take in response.

“The international community is called upon to demand the United States to put an end to its continued unlawful and destabilizing measures in the already volatile region of the Persian Gulf,” Ravanchi wrote to Guterres, according to a copy of the letter published by Iran’s Tasnim news agency. “Iran condemns, in the strongest possible terms, this irresponsible and provocative wrongful act by the United States, which entails its international responsibility.”

The Pentagon refuted Iranian claims that the drone, a U.S. Navy Broad Area Maritime Surveillance (or BAMS-D) ISR Global Hawk drone, was flying in Iranian airspace when Islamic Republic soldiers shot it down. Washington asserted it was legally flying in international airspace and released a video Friday that the Pentagon says proves that the drone had not violated international law. The video shows the aircraft flying over the Strait of Hormuz in international territory as a surface-to-air missile destroys it.

I bet the next US Drone flights in the area won't be 'alone'...

A 4-ship of F-22s and some EA-18G jamming support, among other things...

quote:

EA-18G jamming support,

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Is that a rap group??

I understand why The Donald did what he did. But, and I'll likely suffer the consequences for this opinion, he fucked up.

Iran shot down a United States military aircraft. That is a hostile action against us. An act of war...if you will.

This cannot stand without at least, AT LEAST, a bloody nose without us looking like pussies...and we do tonight. Everyone in the world now knows that we, he, backed off because 150 muslims might die. Boo-fucking-hoo. They've blown up two oil tankers and attacked the United States military directly (not to mention the thousand or so soldiers they've killed in Iraq), and he sat on his hands.

What happens next time? Can they just blow our shit out of the air and do whatever they want with impunity? Seems so.

Strategically blowing shit up is NOT going to start an all out war with Iran because they knew they had it coming, and the rest of the world did too. They don't want a war with us any more than we want one with them. But we should have hit them back. Hard.

Nope, sorry Donald. I'm a big fan, but you fucked up here.

Pretty ironic (and reassuring)...Trump has a steady hand at the helm like HW Bush much to the chagrin of the GDCs.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I understand why The Donald did what he did. But, and I'll likely suffer the consequences for this opinion, he fucked up.

Iran shot down a United States military aircraft. That is a hostile action against us. An act of war...if you will.

This cannot stand without at least, AT LEAST, a bloody nose without us looking like pussies...and we do tonight. Everyone in the world now knows that we, he, backed off because 150 muslims might die. Boo-fucking-hoo. They've blown up two oil tankers and attacked the United States military directly (not to mention the thousand or so soldiers they've killed in Iraq), and he sat on his hands.

What happens next time? Can they just blow our shit out of the air and do whatever they want with impunity? Seems so.

Strategically blowing shit up is NOT going to start an all out war with Iran because they knew they had it coming, and the rest of the world did too. They don't want a war with us any more than we want one with them. But we should have hit them back. Hard.

Nope, sorry Donald. I'm a big fan, but you fucked up here.

Tactically, I agree with you almost 100%.
Politically and long term, I'll defer to our President.

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
I understand why The Donald did what he did. But, and I'll likely suffer the consequences for this opinion, he fucked up.

Iran shot down a United States military aircraft. That is a hostile action against us. An act of war...if you will.

This cannot stand without at least, AT LEAST, a bloody nose without us looking like pussies...and we do tonight. Everyone in the world now knows that we, he, backed off because 150 muslims might die. Boo-fucking-hoo. They've blown up two oil tankers and attacked the United States military directly (not to mention the thousand or so soldiers they've killed in Iraq), and he sat on his hands.

What happens next time? Can they just blow our shit out of the air and do whatever they want with impunity? Seems so.

Strategically blowing shit up is NOT going to start an all out war with Iran because they knew they had it coming, and the rest of the world did too. They don't want a war with us any more than we want one with them.

Nope, sorry Donald. I'm a big fan, but you fucked up here.

That is not even the full story. There is also supposedly verified intel that the decision to shoot down the drone was not at the highest levels, but by the tactical commander and the mullah's are furious. This from Gen. Keane, a pretty reliable source.

So, if some local hothead screws up and shoots down a drone AND you will kill 150 (esp. if there would be civilians), that is neither a proportional response nor the right play if the higher ups didn't sanction it.

Do you really think the rest of the world thinks Trump is a wuss? I don't think so. But he isn't a hawk and won't be manipulated.

Besides, Iran don't give a crap about 150 dead...keeping sanctions in place, ouch!

Gustofer, you'd better get your eyes checked, babe, 'cause you're blind.