^^ The 'first post' is based ENTIRELY based on Lemonade Insurance (a company NOBODY ever heard of until that post on 'X'), and references no other insurers offering such discounts! It even differentiates Lemonade as unique, with the Launch of 'Lemonade Autonomous Car Insurance, a first-of-it's-kind product designed specifically for self-driving cars', and indicated "Traditional insurers treat Tesla like any other car, and AI like any other driver."

Are there other insurance companies offering such discounts for Autonomous Car Insurance? If so, who are they, what are the discounts, and what are the restrictions/requirements to get the discounts?

I had written a great post about my experience with a Tesla Model Y demo with FSD. So proud.
I scroll down and there's this thread. So I deleted that to avoid having Para yell at me.

Here ya go:

...I ordered the model Y L (for long) Launch Series. two third row seats for the grandkids.
My wife and I were both astonished at how well Full Self-Driving (FSD) works.
I remember maybe 5 years ago we were debating on SF if we would ever see self-driving cars. Now here we are; it's real and it's spectacular.
I turn 82 on Friday (don't tell anyone!); I can drive fine; but have to drive my wife most of the time due to a weird vertigo she probably got either from COVID or a COVID shot. Anyway--it's time.
Since that demo drive (BTW they let me "drive" a Model 3 in addition to the Y for half an hour), I feel leery about driving myself; The Tesla was clearly safer than I am, whether on narrow, twisty back roads or on the freeway.

You owe it to yourself, if for no other reason than curiosity, to get a demo drive of the most amazing technology of the 21st century. Oh and Grok (X's AI) is now built in to the Tesla automation, so you can tell it what kind of place you'd like to see and it will plan a route and drive you there.

Heresy, right? To show how serious I am, I'm planning to sell both my 2018 Accord and my 2005 Honda S2000 to finance the Tesla.

Oh shit. NOW I scroll down and see a thread about this.

quote:

Are there other insurance companies offering such discounts for Autonomous Car Insurance

Google AI says:


Yes, Tesla itself offers its own native insurance product with a behavior- and feature-based discount tied to Full Self-Driving (FSD) usage, though major traditional third-party insurers have been slow to match Lemonade's aggressive 50% per-mile cut.Alternative Insurers & ProgramsTesla Insurance: Directly provides real-time adjustments and safety score calculations that factor in Autopilot and FSD utilization. However, Tesla's native discounts are generally smaller (capping around a 10% maximum discount depending on specific coverages and driving metrics) rather than a flat 50% discount per mile. It is available in select states (such as Arizona, Texas, California, Nevada, Ohio, Illinois, and Florida)

quote:

Originally posted by mrvmax:
I have a friend who put 30k on his Tesla using FSD in a few months. He said there were about 5 times he had to intervene - and this is driving in Houston too.

I will consider buying one with FSD in 7-10 years. As I get older, less patient, with declining eyesight and slower response I think it will be worthwhile. But who knows what will happen in that time, maybe others will match the technology and I can buy something else.

I can see a use for it, someday... maybe... as I get older...

BUT

quote:

Are we really willing to give up the freedom inherent in driving yourself in favor of letting some system do it? Even if it is statistically safer?

I'm not willing to give it up yet. I still drive my 4th gen 4Runner, low tech. I like it low tech and completely disconnected from the internet.

Matt, I was surprised at my reaction to FSD. You know I own a Honda S2000, and I love to drive.
OTOH, we drive grandkids around; my wife is no longer comfortable driving places on her own (probably long COVID or reaction to Pfizer vaccine). I found myself feeling much safer on FSD than driving the car myself; and. I have to keep myself alive and healthy as long as I can because they all depend on me.

^^^ Thumbs up!

It's all good... until it's mandatory.

Well, it’s like EV’s, right? I’m delighted to buy an EV that suits my needs; I am diametrically opposed to outlawing ICE engine vehicles.

You know. I had the same reaction when I first heard about the auto driving.

Eff that! I like driving. I like being in control.

What has changed my thinking? Watching my parent grow old and not having the same reflex and coordination they did when they were younger. Watching them eventually becoming dependent on others to get around anywhere.

I see these being a great tool for people getting older and getting their family feel safer about them being independent.

Frankly, in my elderly age, I probably won't be driving hours upon hours. A self driving car that is charged at home would fit the bill nicely.

Thanks for this thread FenderBender. You defended its provocative premise, “The death of human driving has begun,” with good humor and decorum. Some of the replies were disappointingly short on the latter. Folks unhinged by the success of Tesla FSD, I think.

When I became interested in a Tesla with FSD this thread was a great resource. Some of my observations…

Page 1

quote:

How does all this automated driving do in really crappy weather, like sleet, icy roads, tremendous downpours, etc.?

FSD might tell you to take command. Humans have have problems with those conditions too.

Page 2

quote:

I'm curious how they'd do with potholes or washboard roads.
Nope. Not for me.

Teslas can remember potholes. Some models can adjust suspension parameters as they’re approached.

Page 3

quote:

It can’t handle low angle sun, worn paint, roads that are not clean plowed

FSD might have problems with those situations. And so do human drivers.

quote:

They charge 100 bucks a month to RENT the feature. In what world is that a cost savings even with an insurance discount?

I ordered a Tesla because I believe FSD is a safer driver than I am now. Reduced energy and insurance costs might provide an economic benefit. Or not – I don’t care. Safety was my primary motivation.

quote:

for anyone interested in the safety stats.
https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety

For me, this is the bottom line. Beside the stats, the video of Teslas avoiding accidents is very interesting. Captured by the multiple dashcams on every Tesla.

Page 4

quote:

As for the comment earlier about "only wealthy" well, it's been that way since the beginning of time, every major system upgrade starts on higher end vehicles

True. I remember enviously seeing Cadillacs with air conditioning passing my dad’s 1950 Ford. Two large clear plastic tubes, visible in the rear window, identified them.

Page 6

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Only a few letters make the difference between supplementing and supplanting

The Levenshtein distance is 3. Three edits to transform one to the other. An edit is a character deletion, insertion, or replacement. Computed by Levenshtein’s algorithm. He was a very smart man.

quote:

And you discount the most important part. How much is the freedom to go where you want, when you want, without having to rely on someone else worth? Put your car keys away and rely on a 3rd party for all of your transportation needs for a month or 2. We often talk about freedom here, lose your ability to drive and you will get it.

Amen.

quote:

People that have not owned a Tesla with FSD cannot grasp (it is such a paradigm shift) or refuse to believe the insane capabilities of this car. It is often like explaining the capabilities of an iPhone to someone who has only owned a flip phone.

The delivery window of the Tesla Model 3 that I ordered is Sep 9 – Sep 30. I’ve been studying a PDF of the owners manual. It’s astounding. Yeah, iPhone vs. flip phone is a good analogy.

quote:

quote:
And you discount the most important part. How much is the freedom to go where you want, when you want, without having to rely on someone else worth? Put your car keys away and rely on a 3rd party for all of your transportation needs for a month or 2. We often talk about freedom here, lose your ability to drive and you will get it.

Amen.

Not to mention you don't know who's going to show up to drive you in an Uber or Lyft, so you are putting your life in the hands of a stranger to drive you around in their personal vehicle.

In my dads case we've had people accept then cancel the ride at the last minute because they were not close to him as they thought, leaving him unable to arrange a replacement. A real problem, plus the cost you pay is each way, a simple trip to the doctors office is $40.

quote:

Originally posted by Prefontaine:

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
As much as we'd like to think we are all "good drivers", we'll never match the reaction time of the sensors and computers available now and in the future.

Now? Sorry dude, that’s manure. Future, yes, but not now.
<snip>

Here is “now”:

7x Fewer major collisions
7x Fewer minor collisions
5x Fewer off-highway collisions

https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety

Yes, from Tesla, but they’d be sued if these statistics weren’t reasonably accurate. They’re probably conservative.

^^ *Compared to the 'estimated' U.S. average. No actual/comparable data provided.

Calculating the Baseline U.S. Average:

quote:

The CISS and FHWA databases do not contain highway and non-highway breakdowns that are directly comparable to Tesla’s data. Therefore, to estimate a baseline for the “U.S. average” collision rate breakdown by highway and non-highway, Tesla computed the relative fraction of the overall collision rate seen in the manually driven Tesla fleet for both highway and non-highway driving. Tesla then applied those fractions to the major collision “U.S. average” rate to estimate the “U.S. average” collision rate for highway and non-highway driving. Tesla applied the same method to estimate the “U.S. average” rate for “Minor Collisions” by using the ratio of minor collisions to major collisions in the Tesla manually driven fleet. The Tesla manually driven fleet is a reasonably representative approximation for these fractions, due to its size (over three million U.S. vehicles), geographic distribution (presence in every U.S. state), owner makeup (Model Y was the second bestselling non-pickup in the U.S. in 2023-2024) and activity (over 30 billion miles annually in the U.S.).

Tesla has really good data for Tesla vehicles, but similar data is NOT available for the overwhelming majority of all the other vehicles driven in the U.S. Comparing that data to 'estimates' of all the other vehicles is just fancy guesswork.

^^^
Is there any reason to suppose that the accident rate of non-FSD Teslas is significantly different than non-Tesla vehicles? I doubt it.

^^ For the typical Tesla driver(s), probably not. Otherwise, it depends...

I'm not questioning whether FSD is likely safer or not, just questing the validity of applying multipliers when compared to numbers that Tesla admits are in-house estimates. That webpage is for marketing purposes, and not necessarily representative of 'actual data' when compared to all the other vehicles driven in the U.S.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nhracecraft,

quote:

Originally posted by Pipe Smoker:

Is there any reason to suppose that the accident rate of non-FSD Teslas is significantly different than non-Tesla vehicles? I doubt it.

Tesla vehicles, and Tesla drivers, are probably significantly different from the set of all other vehicles. I question whether it is statistically valid to extrapolate Tesla data and apply it to all other vehicles.

exactly. unless there is impartial and comprehensive and relevant normalization, stats are just a view of a dataset that tells the story you want to be told.

i have a buddy who uses fsd daily, park to park, with confidence. i don't share his faith; won't ride in his car under fsd unless i'm at the wheel.

I have a friend who has spent his entire Aerospace Engineering career working on the control systems of aircraft. I have asked him about autopilots in aircraft vs automobiles. Modern planes can take off, fly and land on autopilot. Yet we still require commercial aircraft to have pilots and copilots. Who are required to take control of the plane within 3 seconds of the autopilot not working correctly.

Also, the FAA requires an extremely rigorous testing program for autopilots. Which however good the programmers are for Tesla or other automakers are, most likely don’t measure up to the FAA standards.

Autopilots can only deal with known conditions, which is why you need humans in the loop.

Lastly, some of us actually like driving. I will continue until I know I can’t anymore or people I trust convince me I shouldn’t. And then I will hire someone I trust to drive me around.

Even a self-driving car must be, in a sense, driven, by the human operator, who has to be ready to override the system if it does something wrong. As law and technology currently stand, you can't get out of a ticket or accident that was your fault because the car was in FSD mode at the time.

My Tesla is far and away, the best car I’ve ever had at “active” safety.

I avoided one wreck that I only could have avoided in my old Viper. They’re the only two cars I’ve owned which could have made that turn and accelerated that fast. (Jackass ran a red light at very high speed in Miami. It’s a “thing”. Not sure why. I saw it happen in front of me as well. Both times very stale red lights. Unfortunately the second time I saw it the driver t boned someone.

Again, when I first had it it had all kinds of alarms going off, and I avoided some idiot flying across multiple lanes at very high speed.

The socioeconomic factors have to be adjusted for (I doubt too many Teslas are the uncontrolled addicts and impaired elderly who cause most accidents).

But it would be interesting to see if FSD is safer than their standard cars.

I don’t know if FSD can. I did - and it was definitely braking the inside wheels and let all 4 wheels spin a bit.

It did release a lot of its own restrictions to let me make that turn