https://www.newsmax.com/newsfr...dkt_nbr=010104m05ixo

China Spending Billions to Stop AI, Data Centers in U.S.

While China has been pouring billions into its own AI infrastructure and expansion, it may also be funding an equally expensive influence campaign here in the U.S. to oppose the building of data centers — critical to advancing the technology.

The stakes in the AI are incredibly high, so high that Interior Secretary Doug Burgum recently said whoever dominates in the field of artificial intelligence is "going to control the world."

While China is massively expanding their AI industry growing evidence indicates they are pushing misinformation campaigns in the U.S. with the goal of stopping or delaying the build out of data centers.

These centers are massive computing factories with significant energy and water needs that are key to running AI systems like Grok, ChatGPT, Google's Gemini, and others.

The data centers have become a focal point for supporters and opponents of the new technology.

In April Sen. Bernie Sanders convened his own panel on Capitol Hill to discuss "the existential threat of AI," claiming "the richest, most powerful people in the world are now building a runaway train with no brakes."

Sanders did not hide China’s interest in stopping U.S. AI development. He asked two senior Chinese officials to host the panel with him.

The pair from China — Zeng Yi, dean of the Beijing Institute of AI Safety and Governance, and Xue Lan, a Tsinghua University professor and Counselor to China’s State Council — used their Capitol podium to downplay the U.S.-China AI race.

The far left is unequivocally seeking to completely stop U.S. advancement.

Earlier this year Sanders, along with fellow Democrat Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, introduced the Artificial Intelligence Data Center Moratorium Act. The bill would freeze all new U.S. construction of AI datacenters.

President Donald Trump and others have been counterpunching in what they see an undue foreign influence over a critical technology for U.S. security and economic interests.

On Monday, Trump signed a slew of Executive Orders that aim to combat security risks posed by foreign adversaries.

Last year he signed an Executive Order that streamlined the permitting process for data centers and provided loans and tax incentives for their construction.

In December he reinforced his earlier Order with another one that shields federal permitting from state and local rules.

In May a sweeping new 17-page report from the Bitcoin Policy Institute raised real concerns about China’s efforts to back efforts to sow distrust of data centers and effectively block AI programs in the U.S.

The Institute’s report — "Foreign Influence in the Campaign Against American AI" — details what it calls a multi-year influence operation backed by China targeting U.S. AI data centers and programs.

cont...

It's all about data/AI supremacy. This is the new space race + industrial revolution. You can side with US supremacy or allow China to win. Patriotism should win over hatred of ugly buildings.

Next time you come across an X, reddit, or Facebook post with an anti-AI message, please do that Google reverse image search and see if you really like, what you're liking.

I'm unable to upload pictures to this site any longer, but reverse image this links:

https://www.facebook.com/61553...tid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

https://x.com/DanRShafer/status/2061466053268373641

https://x.com/DJMM32Mcclain/st.../2056898235038302655

There's hundreds of them, all identical, but slightly modified to each state. It's being done by someone for some reason. Organic pushback would not create identical AI BS. If I could post pics I would, just do that reverse image search on these or ones you come across.

quote:

You can side with US supremacy or allow China to win.

All of human history has been entities of one kind or another seeking supremacy or dominance over others. Better US than them.

Data centers have changed a ton in the past decade or so. From about 1994-2010 I personally was involved in the location and engineering design of almost every or perhaps every data center on the East coast. Many were in Northern Virginia. Most of my clients in the 90’s were either .gov or companies like AOL and Worldcomm. Those data centers were mostly large buildings filled with server racks, batteries and generators with armored fiber banks coming in and out. Most people probably didn’t realize it, but they were everywhere even back then, sometimes even defunct big box stores in strip malls were converted to data centers. The data centers back then could be cooled mostly by large high efficiency air conditioning and minimal closed circuit liquid cooling for the chips.
I’ve been out of the data center game for 10-15 years now, and don’t follow the trends very closely, but I know today’s data centers need much higher cooling capabilities and all chips seemingly need liquid evaporative cooling as well as significantly higher power consumption involved.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mutiny,

Good gravy, lawn signs popping up like crazy here.

Dem data centers are the debil!

quote:

Originally posted by Mutiny:
Data centers have changed a ton in the past decade or so. From about 1994-2010 I personally was involved in the location and engineering design of almost every or perhaps every data center on the East coast. Many were in Northern Virginia. Most of my clients in the 90’s were either .gov or companies like AOL and Worlcomm. Those data centers were mostly large buildings filled with server racks, batteries and generators with armored fiber banks coming in and out. Most people probably didn’t realize it, but they were everywhere even back then, sometimes even defunct big box stores in strip malls were converted to data centers. The data centers back then could be cooled mostly by large high efficiency air conditioning and minimal closed circuit liquid cooling for the chips.
I’ve been out of the data center game for 10-15 years now, and don’t follow the trends very closely, but I know today’s data centers need much higher cooling capabilities and all chips seemingly need liquid evaporative cooling as well as significantly higher power consumption involved.

Rob Roy changed the entire design for thermal management with Switch.

Call me a skeptic.

Around here there is strong opposition to the locations being proposed. The issues are environmental plus knowing we citizens are going to pay a lot one way or another.

So it isn't anti-progress.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
Around here there is strong opposition to the locations being proposed. The issues are environmental plus knowing we citizens are going to pay a lot one way or another.

So it isn't anti-progress.

What is the environmental impacts you are expecting and costs you expect to pay?

My unknowledgeable knee jerk reaction to these data centers is that they are unnecessary, exploitive, and wasteful. They will be used to mine the public’s data for profit of a few and control over all. If these were legitimate self supporting services the government would not need to offer subsidies, loans and tax breaks for it to happen. We don’t need summaries of our text and emails pushed front and center. We don’t need an electronic nanny monitoring, storing away every scrap of data, and using it to control our life and livelihood.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
Around here there is strong opposition to the locations being proposed. The issues are environmental plus knowing we citizens are going to pay a lot one way or another.

So it isn't anti-progress.

What is the environmental impacts you are expecting and costs you expect to pay?

The location being pushed is remote high desert on the shore of the Great Salt Lake. The lake and the shoreline areas are habitat and migration stopover for many birds. Precipitation to the east of the lake depends a lot on evaporation from the lake, and the weather patterns around the lake are a complex interaction of surface temperatures, humidity, and geography.

Water usage. We are already in a critical situation due to a rapidly expanding population on top of a prolonged reduction in precipitation. The Great Salt Lake already is an ecological crisis which affects many species, and which is affecting the local climate. There are substantial efforts trying to stop the continuing reduction in lake water level.

Heat. The huge facility will affect not just the immediate area but may affect more general weather patterns if the heat is dumped into the atmosphere. If warmed water is cycled into the lake it will substantially affect what little still survives in the lake.

Humidity. If evaporative cooling is involved, the very dry climate will be altered.

Electricity. Substantial infrastructure will be needed to power such a data center. Due to the expanding population we are already facing challenges. Since nuclear is not likely, any power generation will also put pollution in the air and require substantial acreage.

The economic costs will depend on the details, but won't be zero. Who pays for the roads and the electrical grid build out? Who pays for future road maintenance and seasonal snow removal? What is the cost when water (already the most expensive utility here) is further diverted, including from agricultural use? If the local weather is altered it could devastate our economy which heavily depends on snow.

I managed a data center for a major wireless carrier. It was about a football field in length, in terms of the raised floor area. This was 20 years ago and our kWh bill was $200k per month. We had in ground diesel storage tank for our three 2 story Caterpillar Diesel generators. And a room about the size of a 3000 sq ft house full of batteries for battery backup. Unless the Cats were started (once per month IIRC for monthly testing) the building didn’t generate noise. And it was strategically placed in an area that was not next to homes or apartments. This DC was for your cellular. Major routing as well for data traffic.

Those are necessary in every area where it’s a major population center. Clear distinction between these AI data centers which is all the current rage.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bendable,

Bernie Sanders hosting a panel with two Chinese officials troubles me much more. Add to that AOC introducing a "Moratorium Act". I am not a fan of data centers, but we do not need progressive leftists working with countries hostile to the US dictating to us. Handle this at the local and state level, and avoid involving the federal government, especially Congress.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
Around here there is strong opposition to the locations being proposed. The issues are environmental plus knowing we citizens are going to pay a lot one way or another.

So it isn't anti-progress.

What is the environmental impacts you are expecting and costs you expect to pay?

The location being pushed is remote high desert on the shore of the Great Salt Lake. The lake and the shoreline areas are habitat and migration stopover for many birds. Precipitation to the east of the lake depends a lot on evaporation from the lake, and the weather patterns around the lake are a complex interaction of surface temperatures, humidity, and geography.

Water usage. We are already in a critical situation due to a rapidly expanding population on top of a prolonged reduction in precipitation. The Great Salt Lake already is an ecological crisis which affects many species, and which is affecting the local climate. There are substantial efforts trying to stop the continuing reduction in lake water level.

Heat. The huge facility will affect not just the immediate area but may affect more general weather patterns if the heat is dumped into the atmosphere. If warmed water is cycled into the lake it will substantially affect what little still survives in the lake.

Humidity. If evaporative cooling is involved, the very dry climate will be altered.

Electricity. Substantial infrastructure will be needed to power such a data center. Due to the expanding population we are already facing challenges. Since nuclear is not likely, any power generation will also put pollution in the air and require substantial acreage.

The economic costs will depend on the details, but won't be zero. Who pays for the roads and the electrical grid build out? Who pays for future road maintenance and seasonal snow removal? What is the cost when water (already the most expensive utility here) is further diverted, including from agricultural use? If the local weather is altered it could devastate our economy which heavily depends on snow.

You said KNOW, but then replied with a bunch of speculation:

It the location lakeside?

What is the cooling type? Why do you think it will use water?

Are we worried about drying out the area or oversaturating with water and where do these concerns stem from?

It sounds like your area doesn't even have the capacity for any additional growth, that's not a problem related to data centers, it's a utility issue.

Data centers are a net economic positive period, there is no question regarding that. Typically private roads are paid for by the people that own them. How long is the proposed road?

I would pose the above questions to your local government, if they can't tell them exactly how water they are using; where the power comes from; who's paying for the transmission lines; and if public roadways are going to be built what is the cost sharing on that. For my company I know the answers to these questions we are by FAR a net positive for our community, but you need to make sure your local government gets the right answers to these questions, no different than if a shoe or computer chip factory was going in this location.

I wouldn't even know how to begin to guess impact on bird migration, but for that there's a million organizations that will come out in arms if there's an impact. Thanks for elaborating, reach out directly if you get any answers on the other portions and I can guide you through questions you might realistically ask the board/council to make sure you're answered properly and not sounding like an environmental wack ado or I'll informed person.

quote:

Originally posted by uvahawk:
Bernie Sanders hosting a panel with two Chinese officials troubles me much more. Add to that AOC introducing a "Moratorium Act". I am not a fan of data centers, but we do not need progressive leftists working with countries hostile to the US dictating to us. Handle this at the local and state level, and avoid involving the federal government, especially Congress.

Chinese, AOC, and BS teaming together should say something.

Are you getting paid to promote these things on line? Serious question.

Are you fucking kidding me?

No I'm just tired of ignorant people saying stupid shit they know little about and repeating propaganda.

One of the solutions seems to be to require them to buy a modular nuclear station, to power themselves - it would be wildly more efficient, anyway - seems like a user of that size, should be as close to a power plant as possible.

The other real issue (because their model is definitely going to fail. This is one of those 99% will be bankrupt in 7 years things.) is posting a bond for clean up. When they go bankrupt, what will be expensive?

(EG, when a solar farm gets hit by a hail storm, and suddenly all the soil is toxic.)

Water is another issue entirely. And that varies depending on if it's in an area where non-potable water is available, and of no particular use. (EG, coastal Carolina has lots of non-potable near surface ground water. Use it for cooling, and dump it right back into the surface of the ground - no significant issue.) We have lots of old, dead mill towns in the South, which could be great for this, provided they can supply their own power.

Can we clarify? Are these new centers data centers in that they just store data like days of yore? Lots of storage and network but minimal compute?

Or are these supporting the “AI” shit, models, learning, execution that requires significantly more compute? Compute requiring much more power, producing much more heat.