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Network Janitor |
Both, depending on who is building them. The Microsoft DC in Wisconsin is for Azure cloud compute and several expansion buildings for AI. AI requires lots of compute. GPU mainly and those are power hungry and generate heat. Requires power and cooling. Businesses do not want their AI in the public cloud. So this changes the DC model for everyone to go from 20Kw racks to 100+Kw rack. Electrical infrastructure in most current buildings are not set for that. Business model says build new and ROI is better than retrofitting. A few Sigs and some others | |||
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| The Ice Cream Man |
I think some of these projects may be “lawyer traps”. There are lawyers who go around setting up lawsuits for private. Mostly for ADA stuff off google street view, but I’ve also seen scams where he demanded the right to post some incredibly foul banner on a courthouse, along with the Nativity and Menorah, and then sued when denied. I heard about one where a small town in a desert didn’t have the right restrictions and a “developer” went in and sued when he was told he could put a huge development in, because they could t afford to provide it with water. Go to a small rural co-op with cheap electric, then sue when it cannot provide you with electricity? Haven’t looked into it, but that may be what some of these projects are up to. Given how much tax money SC is willing to give to MegaCorps, it seems odd that these data centers are going into these old mill towns. | |||
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| No More Mr. Nice Guy |
There's no question the citizens are going to pay significant dollars one way or another for this project. While I can't give you amounts or what precisely they will go towards, it is a certainty. The location is not right on the lake shore but quite close. Within the environment of the lake. There are many miles of public road to access that area, and those public roads will need to be improved to carry the construction traffic and then maintained into the future. Since there will likely be huge tax breaks given to the developers, costs will most likely be borne by taxpayers. There will be some magical math showing tax revenues of some sort that offset costs, but those need to be proven and then enforced to be believable. I don't know where the excess heat will be dumped, but it will either be into the air or into the water. It may also dump water vapor into the air. Realize that this is a very dry area where added heat and/or humidity will significantly impact the environment, all manner of species, and the climate. Water is a complex issue. I've spoken with a water conservationist about the project and statewide water issues in general. They are saying water will be returned to the lake. Desalinated? Heated? Either would be bad. The pre-existing water shortage issues due to population inflow does not diminish the reasons to be concerned about this data center. So far the very pro-development state government is saying everything will be great, just trust them. | |||
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Honky Lips |
What exactly do you think solar panels are made of? _____________________________________________ Proverbs 3:31 "Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways." | |||
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| Member |
Serious answer: That is the dumbest fucking question I have ever seen on this forum. If you are against AI come up with some serious arguments instead of the bullshit you just posted. | |||
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A Grateful American |
99.% of Arsenic, Mercury, Polonium-210 and 1% MSG. Everyone knows that. "the meaning of life, is to give life meaning" ✡ Ani Yehudi אני יהודי Le'olam lo shuv לעולם לא עוד | |||
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| The Ice Cream Man |
https://medium.com/@GSPIAe_eBl...er-acre-862e88c5445f $15k per acre just to decommission an intact solar farm. Hail losses hit 50% of construction cost: https://pv-magazine-usa.com/20...-insurance-costs-72/ | |||
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| Member |
At the end of the day. The AI genie is out of the bottle. The countries that lead in AI will control the world, the countries that fall behind in AI will be controlled. Some of you think AI is about "shit models" that are useless or entertaining at best and use a lot of resources or models used to track our movements and spending. That is where it started but it is far beyond that and growing. AI is now moving into the physical world, think self driving cars and trucks, autonomous drones, humanoid robots. A lot of this will make our lives easier and better, but a lot will be used in the military. Are there dangers and environmental issues, absolutely. Again to be very clear, countries that lead in AI will control the world either economically and/or militarily. | |||
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| Internet Guru |
I agree with this analysis. Many people here can remember the productivity paradox of the 80's. AI is a game changer, and I would just recommend that people embrace the technology and try to profit from it. | |||
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| Honky Lips |
That does not approach an answer to my question. _____________________________________________ Proverbs 3:31 "Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways." | |||
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אַרְיֵה |
I did not know about the MSG. That might explain my allergic reaction. הרחפת שלי מלאה בצלופחים | |||
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Member |
Interesting. I’ve had 35 panels on my house since 2014. The panels are stronger than my roof (shingles). Last big hail storm I had to replace all the shingles except the shingles under my panels. The panels sustained zero damage from the hail storm. I had to replace the half of the roof where there are no panels, the entire fence, and lots of other damage. Those panels (it’s a lease) save me a couple of grand in kWh costs per year. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| The Ice Cream Man |
Fender bender, I have no idea what panels are made of. I know older forms of electronic waste pose major clean up issues, which is why I looked up the clean up cost, and they are significant. As do O&G production facilities from bankrupt companies It doesn’t make sense to permanently damage farm land/hazardous farm land for solar panels. It’s illogical. I get that the companies have found some type of underpriced risk but it doesn’t change the foolishness of it. | |||
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| Honky Lips |
So I can be sure I understand, you don't know what solar panels are made of or how they function but you're sure they'll permanently damage "farm land" in some way? Have I misunderstood you? _____________________________________________ Proverbs 3:31 "Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways." | |||
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Ammoholic |
The use of information technology is not going to fail. If so, they will simply put them in the landfills next to cars, cellphones, computers, TVs, banks, and ice makers when we move past using transportation, communication, technology, money, and ice cream. Look I seriously don't think the modern luddites will win the technological revolution revolution. If they do win, I imagine something similar to Mad Max so we won't really care, we will just be fighting over water and oil. Can you explain your question more? It sounds ridiculous to someone who doesn't understand your fear. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| Member |
Safety, Situational Awareness and proficiency. Neck Ties, Hats and ammo brass, Never ,ever touch'em w/o asking first | |||
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| The Ice Cream Man |
I looked up the clean up costs for solar panels. It exceeds the cost of ag land. This would imply that when the panels break/fail/etc they will be abandoned rather than cleaned. SC is getting a lot of solar farm projects - eliminating farm land and permeable area is illogical, rather than covering parking lots. Admittedly, I do not think it’s a useful way, yet, of producing electricity in this climate. I think it is foolish to build subdivisions on farm land, as well. AI companies will fail because “all” public companies fail in 7 years or so. A site with a massive power supply and cooling, may be useful in later years - but the South is littered with dead towns and abandoned industrial buildings, and railroad sidings and barge ports which would “always” be useful. | |||
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| Ammoholic |
Can you please provide a link to information on this because I can not find a single instance of what you described, only extremely contrary information. Also explain how an as of undetermined solar abandonment will lead to us abandoning technology. We are not going to stop having technology, the cellphone in your pocket isn't going anywhere, AI is here to stay, I'd put money on it killing us long before it goes away. A Google inquiry - where have solar farms been abandoned due to hail damage?
Think of hermit crabs, another one is always standing by to crawl in the old shell when a crab out grows it's existing shell. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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The Unmanned Writer |
Helps them retain water more efficiently. Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. "If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own... | |||
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Member |
I think this perfectly illustrates the concerns that a lot of people have. There are a LOT of people that find the risks of some of the promised AI advancements to far outweigh the potential benefits. There are a lot of people that feel like there’s a line in the sand that should be drawn thereby preventing further advancement of AI beyond that point. Not unlike the widely held desire to prevent nuclear weapon proliferation and the desire to shrink nuclear weapon stockpiles, there’s people that see the AI situation as an opportunity to keep another “nuclear genie” in the bottle. There’s people that could actually justify military action against other countries to prevent AI from becoming a monster in much the same way that they’re willing to bomb the crap out of Iran to prevent them from acquiring a nuclear weapon. I’m not saying that anyone posting in this thread, myself included, has those exact views but I do think it’s wise to consider the potential risks of AI proliferation before it becomes problematic. I’m not saying we are absolutely headed towards sky net (although the marked anti human bias in AI is certainly troubling) but I think the concerns over destruction of arable farmland causing potential food supply issues down the road is a very reasonable and realistic concern. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
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