I have been, and continue to be a tremendous supporter of law enforcement. I can't begin to fully understand how they deal with what they deal with on a never ending basis.

That said, recent events are bothering me substantially.

With the arrest of a member going to the gym...I am more aware that they will enforce law, as it is handed to them...

With the Minneapolis situation yesterday... I have no words. It was murder right there for all to see.

If I, a middle aged white male, am starting to really struggle with my feelings, what are others feeling?

Yes, bad apples, blah, blah, blah. BUT, I see a tide turning...

Thoughts? Am I alone in my feelings?

Maybe I need a reset myself.

Struggling with your feelings. What does that mean?

What you don't see are the tens of thousands of good things they do...

Oh boy.

quote:

Originally posted by Dreamerx4:
BUT, I see a tide turning...

What data supports that conclusion?

Tide turning...the tide is the MSM only plays the bad things.



Remember the MSM is not "news" they are the propaganda arm of the progressive left.

If all you saw or heard about the Minneapolis incident was the video I'd say it was murder. However I don't even know what he was detained for or any other details. I'll wait for this to run it's coarse before making a final judgement. Is it enough to condemn all LEO's. Hell no!! People make poor judgements in all professions. Considering the pressure that cops operate under I'm surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often.

Jim

The police exist to serve and protect the interest of the state. Anything else they do is incidental to that purpose.

If you evaluate their actions in that context, then you realize that any anger you feel about their actions shouldn't be directed toward the police but towards the elected officials that set police policy and priorities.

By the same note, I don't fawn all over the police when they happen to do something admirable. I could do a lot of admirable things if I had the power to call on the full resources of the state to do my job on a day to day basis.

As I have written multiple times on this forum, but nobody seems to understand, contact with law enforcement seldom ends with a positive outcome and is best avoided whenever and however possible.

It’s always good to not be led by emotions.

I think the biggest challenge is that many people believe the police must be perfect at all times. They forget an officer is a human that makes mistakes.

They also fail to understand what it's like to be out there every day, especially in the last 3+ years.

Bottom line is that had people complied as they are supposed to, most of these incidents would never happen.

Police are like any other segment of our society.
Good. Mediocre. Bad.
Police work is damned if you do, and damned if you dont. And no matter what the level of damnation is or is not, it will be on video.
If you seek perfection in law enforcement, you will be disappointed.
As to the arrest in Minneapolis, I forsee criminal charges for the officer soon, both locally and or Federally.

I understand where you're coming from and yes there are bad apples that make all cops look bad but the real concern is how many good cops will obey orders from above regardless how unconstitutional the orders. You saw State Police ticketing church goers who were sitting in their cars, you saw a hair salon owner arrested for merely being in her business and you saw a fellow forum member arrested for going to the gym so there are police officers more than willing to obey orders regardless of their constitutionality. I have no doubt when faced with repercussions like, suspensions or losing their jobs, the majority of cops will violate your rights and arrest you. Everywhere people have lost their freedoms there were police officers and military that obeyed orders, Nazi Germany comes to mind, and I'm not sure the US will be any different.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Struggling with your feelings. What does that mean?

Struggling in feelings of mistrust etc. I have never questioned law enforcement.

They do so much good, I know this is not the norm. I am truly surprised at the anger and frustration I am feeling. It is new to me.

^^^ This. There are percentages of bad people across the whole spectrum of race, vocation, sex, etc. No different with the police. The vast majority of them are good people trying to do the right thing. A percentage of them are thugs. Unfortunately the media only focuses on the small percentage of ones that do bad things and ignore the vast majority that go about doing their jobs well.

Here's an idea. Don't do stupid things that get you involved with the police. This is in reference to the Minneapolis incident. I don't go robbing people or using drugs so at most, I might have a traffic citation.

“If you look for perfection, you'll never be content.”
― Leo Tolstoy

Cops aren't perfect. They just aren't. You get the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

It only takes a tiny percentage of them to go wrong to make the rest look bad. There is no solution to this. It's simple math.

H&K-Guy

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
As to the arrest in Minneapolis, I forsee criminal charges for the officer soon, both locally and or Federally.

That certainly seems to be the direction it is heading today.

Serious question for the LEOs: What do you suppose the officer was trying to accomplish by keeping him on the ground for an extended period of time? With 3 others nearby and a crowd gathering, wouldn't the inclination be to scoop him up and put him in the car as quickly as possible?

quote:

Originally posted by calugo:
I understand where you're coming from and yes there are bad apples that make all cops look bad but the real concern is how many good cops will obey orders from above regardless how unconstitutional the orders. You saw State Police ticketing church goers who were sitting in their cars, you saw a hair salon owner arrested for merely being in her business and you saw a fellow forum member arrested for going to the gym so there are police officers more than willing to obey orders regardless of their constitutionality. I have no doubt when faced with repercussions like, suspensions or losing their jobs, the majority of cops will violate your rights and arrest you. Everywhere people have lost their freedoms there were police officers and military that obeyed orders, Nazi Germany comes to mind, and I'm not sure the US will be any different.

This is all very concerning to me, and adds to the feelings of distrust.

These are not feelings or thoughts I like, or am familiar with. That is why I am venting I suppose.

I have always believed the best of police, I certainly want to still.

My feeling toward the current police is one of 'concern' not anger. The left hates LE. That is well documented over history. The right typically supports LE. You see that here and many other places. However, I think senior ups (whether elected or appointed) in many LE organizations are risking their relationship and support with those on the right by participating in these power grabs/plays by mayors/governors (Ex. arresting and/or harassing gym goers). Without respect and support from at least a large subset of the population they cannot do their jobs. That's where my concern lies.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
As to the arrest in Minneapolis, I forsee criminal charges for the officer soon, both locally and or Federally.

That certainly seems to be the direction it is heading today.

Serious question for the LEOs: What do you suppose the officer was trying to accomplish by keeping him on the ground for an extended period of time? With 3 others nearby and a crowd gathering, wouldn't the inclination be to scoop him up and put him in the car as quickly as possible?

I do not yell at my employees.

The closest I have came has been because they go lizard-brain and decide to sit on messy scenes with a combative prisoner instead of loading them up and getting the hell out of there, either to jail, a hospital, or to rendezvous with an ambulance. Even after being chewed out from the last time they did it. It's a recurring theme.

GTF off the X.

I expect a combination of poor training, inexperience (years of experience do not equate to experience), and tunnel vision.

Most of you would be mind-blown at how poorly trained cops are in general, especially when it comes to physical confrontation. Hours of Flavor-of-the-day-feel-good-deescalation...but when shit goes south none of that really works.


As far as the overall topic, most of the information against cops is media-driven. Anyone that trusts the media without questioning them is an idiot. I think we can mostly agree on that, whether it is COVID, cops, Trump, weather...anything.