A deputy I knew back in the 90's was involved in a shooting in 1990. Perp was on a rampage and had knifed 3 women and a child. Deputy arrived on scene with his S&W 5906 in 9mm. Perp then charged at the deputy. Deputy proceeded to shoot 28 times before a CNS hit crumpled him up. This involved 2 reloads (10 rd mags at the time). That all happened in about 36 seconds according to witness statements (how they came to that conclusion, I don't know).

According to the autopsy report, 26 rounds entered the perps body. The coroner also believed that at least half of those hits were fatal, yet the perp continued until that final CNS shot through the nasal cavity. Blood panel showed meth, PCP, LSD, and crack.


Whatever you do, don't underestimate how many rounds you think it will take to end a threat.


**The deputy eventually became a DARE/School Resource Officer. He managed for a little while afterwards by drinking, but after 2 DUI's (both in his patrol car) and a divorce, he took his own life.

I carry as much ammo as I reasonably can.

Mag capacity is one of the main reasons why I switched back to carrying my .357sig P229 instead of my Shield .45 even though the Sig is heavier and less convenient to conceal.

Didn’t watch the video. Not a huge Mas fan (not in a disparaging way but he’s not my cup of tea) but if I’m reading this right, of course I agree with Mas. Other than the above, you can never have too much ammo unless you are swimming comment, I would always prefer options. More ammo is more options. And yes carrying more ammo has absolutely nothing to do with spray and pray. Just because you have it doesn’t mean you need to spend it. I’m not sure why you would pick this to fight against. Seems not only reasonable but sensible.

quote:

I'm not sure I agree with him, other things being equal, esp in light of the fact that you're held accountable for every bullet that leaves the barrel.

So IF you don't shoot ALL or any of the rounds aren't you still "accounting" for the ones still in the mag?

Maybe think about what you are saying.

I was an independent insurance agent for over 45 years before retiring last year. During that same time frame I was also worked with the local volunteer fire/EMS dept. To say I've seen a few things is putting it mildly. Things are going to happen when you least expect them to happen and sometimes there is nothing you can do....but sometimes there is....ie....don't drink and drive, drive defensesively, buy car and house insurance, don't drive when you are tired,etc.
I've also been shooting IDPA since 2007 both in local matches and a few regional matches. I've seen people shooting both low end pistols and seen a few shooting some high $$$ ones. One thing they all had in common is at one time or the other is at they will fail... it's a fact of life. It may a minor malfunction or a major but it will happen. It's happened to me more than once. Most of time it's an easy fix with a jam clearing and new magazine but I needed to know how & I needed a new magazine. Just saying.

I'm not sure what is considered a "normal" SD situation but whether it's one person or 10 I'd prefer as many rounds as I can legally and comfortably carry.

If nothing else, sometimes magazines do get dropped. I have seen videos of two law enforcement incidents in which officers inadvertently lost them during an incident. Once was with a pistol and the officer was able to replace it, one was with an AR and after discovering he didn’t have a magazine in the weapon, he just dropped the rifle on the ground* and switched to his pistol.

* And the reason for having slings on all long guns in addition to spare magazines.

I think the OP is so wrong here that I hope he is just trolling us and not serious.

The standard capacity 15 rd mags for my P226 are range mags. My carry mags are 18 rd mags. Will those extra 6 rds make a difference? I don't expect to ever find out but if I do, my last thought will not be "damn, I wish I had gone with the bigger mags".

The same logic drove the move from a LCP to a P365, bigger rds and more of them in a carry package.

As to the mag dropping, I’ve always (relatively) been a fan of the HK style mag release. No matter how hard you grip a gun while scared I can’t manipulate that release. I have always assumed (usually a bad idea) that adrenaline gripping and a less than optimal grip causes these drops. HK style I just don’t see this occurring.

What do you mean by "high capacity" magazines?

An AR-15, for example, takes 30 cartridge magazines as the "standard." So are we talking 50- or 100-round drums?

A SIG P226 is designed for 15 round cartridges. Are we talking about the 21-cartridge magazines that are available?

A full size P320 takes as a standard 17- or 21-cartridge magazines.

Any other magazine configuration in these examples that holds fewer cartridges than the gun is designed to hold is a "decreased capacity magazine."

And carrying a "decreased capacity magazine" is always a mistake when carrying the standard capacity magazine rarely becomes one.

Anyone who carries spare magazines with their carry pistol should not question the rationale behind higher capacity magazines. To do so would be to defy logic.

In my opinion, you need to carry as many rounds as practical, both in the pistol and spare mags.

Something to consider, which many people do not- a stressed shooter may empty their pistol in one volley. What do you do then? And before anyone mentions it, yes, I understand the concept of shooting until a threat is stopped. I'm also well aware of the real world, in which a mag dump under stress leaves you defenseless. Loading a second magazine will help a stressed shooter come back to reality.

To the OP's question- I do not want to carry a primary pistol with six or seven rounds in it. In a backup pistol, low capacity is often necessary, but a primary, I want at least fifteen rounds in the pistol.

Hell yes I carry as much capacity as is reasonably concealable in my pistol. Right now, that means between 13 and 16 rounds, depending on choice.

My biggest worry isn't one idiot. It's 4 idiots in a car, either behind me, or in front of me, that do something stupid. All of s sudden, the 938 or 1911 with 7 or 8+1 doesn't seem like such a good idea, given that even cops don't hit that many of their shots percentage wise.

2 shots per assailant for incapacity isn't much in a dynamic environment, and I don't want to be screwing around with a reload while pookie is pumping 9s into me.

Typically, I'm carrying two guns, and 44 rounds.

Judged by 12, carried by 6 easy call.

17+1 in the gun (2011 today) and two spare 20-rd mags. Been doing it so long, I no longer even notice the weight.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Mas on this one.

The basis of that logic sounds like a SD engagement is a pre-planned event. It isn't.

Certainly not by the guy doing the defending.....

I'll take my extra mags, thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Dented:
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Mas on this one.

The basis of that logic sounds like a SD engagement is a pre-planned event. It isn't.

Certainly not by the guy doing the defending.....

I'll take my extra mags, thanks.

Does not compute.

yes, it does not compute.

I didn't hear anything in the first video that I disagreed with in the slightest.

If you were near any of the excitement of 2020 like I was, and you aren't carrying 50+ rounds of ammo on your person, then you and I aren't going to agree on much. That's fine with me, because I don't have to justify it. I add a little over twice that in rifle rounds for any road trip with the family over an hour, and since Arizona is a little slice of America That Was, a good chunk of that is loaded in a rifle that's immediately accessible.

The world has changed, gentlemen.

The last time I mentioned anything like this in short form here, I got a snarky comment from a combat vet that he didn't carry that much on him through two tours in Iraq. I don't have the whole might of the US military in air strikes, supply lines, and medevac to back me up. It's just me, my wife, and my little boy, and Bubba lemme tellya, I will not be anyone's easy victim.

I will say, that with the advent of G20s, and G21s, I’m not sure a 9MM offers much, if someone can shoot those platforms well.

Otherwise, “the only time there is such thing as too much ammo is while swimming or on fire.”

I’m not as hinky anymore, but I used to be more of a fan of carrying multiple guns, than reloads.

I’ve broken a lot of guns in matches.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
I will say, that with the advent of G20s, and G21s, I’m not sure a 9MM offers much, if someone can shoot those platforms well.

Ehhh, it's the same caliber debate stuff with .40 vs 9mm. I shot some rather stout Border Patrol contract .40 ammo last week and then shot some 9mm Hornady Critical Defense and it was far easier to control and shoot the 9mm at speed.