This video by Mass Ayoob via Wilson Combat is interesting. He makes a case for high cap mags for civilian carry. I'm not sure I agree with him, other things being equal, esp in light of the fact that you're held accountable for every bullet that leaves the barrel.

Now if you're the target of a mob, well then I could see his point. But for most "normal" SD situations (whatever the hell that is), I'm not sure I agree with him.

What say you guys ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XJzxpn2vuA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsfGQASU3W8

Training, training, training.

So, you don't agree with civilians carrying hi-cap / extra-cap self defense pistols?

Better have and not need than need and not have. I'm sure you have heard this?

quote:

Now if you're the target of a mob, well then I could see his point.

Btw, you don't need to face a "mob" to need extra ammo. Just one thug with an AR pistol is enough to change your mind. How about a drug-crazed maniac with the strength of 5 men?

Although I don't personally carry an extra mag, I'm not opposed to anyone who does.

I think Ayoob is spot on. These days the bad guys run in groups. Video of these hoards are all over the internet. Better to have it and not need it.

^^Q said it better than I did.

The thugs around here like to gang up and attack in groups. Tell ye what, that's why I switched to a Glock 32 with 21 round mags. If I get got, it wont be from lack of shooting back.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
This video by Mass Ayoob via Wilson Combat is interesting. He makes a case for high cap mags for civilian carry. I'm not sure I agree with him, other things being equal, esp in light of the fact that you're held accountable for every bullet that leaves the barrel.

Now if you're the target of a mob, well then I could see his point. But for most "normal" SD situations (whatever the hell that is), I'm not sure I agree with him.

What say you guys ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XJzxpn2vuA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsfGQASU3W8

Am I understanding your logic that if someone carries a standard cap magazine, hi capacity in your words, that automatically means they'll pray and spray?

Better to have it and not need it that to need it and not have it.

quote:

Originally posted by wrightd:
What say you guys ?

Do you carry spare magazines?

I don't carry a gun. Never felt the need in my literal one stop light town.
That said, I don't equate carrying more ammo with a willingness to "spray and pray." I took most who carry spare(s) mag was mainly for malfunctions or failure of mag/ammo in the firearm.

Do you lock your doors at night?

I carry spare mags and like the idea of 15+1.

If I didn't think it would look too silly, I'd pull a Radio Flyer full of ammo.

throwing your pistol at the perp as a last resort is a horrible one.

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:


The “three rounds, three seconds, three yards” factoid is unfounded Fuddlore horseshit. No actual data exists to support this supposed “typical gunfight” model.


-Bruce

Spoken eloquently in another thread.

I have medical insurance, homeowners insurance, and vehicle insurance for all the reasons. Hi cap magazines in a pistol are no different to me. You don’t know what you don’t know. Could be a number of people in a group or it could be you in your first high stress situation missing shots or worse, you getting wounded. I’ll take the added insurance every time.

Ayoob is one of the best real experts there is, to the point of being an expert witness in countless trials. If there is one person you can actually listen to, it is him.

There is a saying among pilots that the only time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire!

My belief is that the only time you have too much ammunition… well, never!

So I go along with Mas; I took the Stress-fire course from Ayoob years ago… worth every dollar I spent on it!

I am fine with 10 rounds (currently a G48) and a spare mag. I also carry a 1911 or 220 from time to time, also with spare mags.
But that's here in the little town by the lake.
If I cross the bridge, then its high cap and a spare mag.
Its a matter of risk assessment for me. And I can change if the risk increases. Which, inevitably, it will given the direction we are moving as a society.

I finally broke down and got my concealed carry permit, because crime in IL is following the blue-state model, multiple assailants who don't habla English, and I still can't convince my GF to move to a safer area. Like Texas.

The thought of carrying less than a G-19 and at least one spare mag is unacceptable.

If IL hadn't made mags greater than 15 rounds illegal, I'd have and carry them. For now, I'm trying to figure how to carry a couple spares without printing too much, or my pants falling down.

quote:

Originally posted by tleddy:
There is a saying among pilots that the only time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire!

My belief is that the only time you have too much ammunition… well, never!

So I go along with Mas; I took the Stress-fire course from Ayoob years ago… worth every dollar I spent on it!

Well... I think what the pilot said applies to ammo too, that and falling into the water.

quote:

Originally posted by tleddy:
There is a saying among pilots...

"The three most useless things during an emergency are the runway behind you, the altitude above you, and the fuel left in the fuel truck."

When you need it, there is no argument that you need it, now. And none of all the back up, spares, and people that could have helped you then, can help you now.

Rule number one, "Prepare for now."

I routinely carry and have for quite a long time. I started with a Colt Cobra, advanced to a hammerless Ruger and added a speed loader when I discovered them. The world changed and I changed. I've trained under some of the best and made it a point to listen. None of then ever suggested a minimalist approach.

I know a boat load of men and a couple of women who carry and, of all of that number, literally dozens, and over a lot of years I only know four (civilians, cops are a different story) that have needed to pull the trigger on a bad actor. One man was in a coffee shop when a lunatic came in and attacked him. He shot once, the lunatic retreated and attacked the barista. My acquaintence emptied his revolver into the guy before the guy quit, DRT. He did not have a reload.
So I'm not particularly worried about being accosted, at least I wasn't for a long time. My island paradise just had its first car-jacking ever. It occurred in broad daylight in a Safeway parking lot. The woman was terrified, the car is still gone, I understand. Road rage on the other side of the bridge is happening. The times they are a changin'.

I carry a 10 rd p365, with a back up in a belt-pouch and three more in a Safepacker with me in my truck. That load doesn't inconvenience me other than not challenging the post office edicts but they don't care how many evil bullets you have, 1 is sufficient to complete the offense.

Side note, relevant I think: I went through Ayoobs Instructor Development course in which each student was required to prepare to present three court cases involving shootings. He picked the one to be presented so you had to be prepared on all three and then we heard about 15, I think. I was impressed at the time about the number of shots that were fired in many of them and I don't recall any of them that had a citizen confronted by a gang as we are hearing about now in Seattle. A different kind of threat then.