Why are people using the word "criminals" to describe those who break the law in Seattle? Don't they know that in Progressive Democratic Seattle the correct term is "Justice Involved Citizens?"

You guys remember those Kryptonite U shaped bicycle locks to used a cylindrical key that could be opened by jamming a BIC pen into? I had and may still have one of those locks and the BIC pen really did open it. How about the Master Lock dial combination locks that can be opened with shim made from a soda can?

I’m curious what you guys think about that.

I was pissed about the bike lock, but fortunately my bike was never stolen. Had it been, I would absolutely blame Kryptonite for using such a shitty lock.

I buy a lock and I have a certain expectation that a 12 year old with a pen, soda can, or USB cord won’t be able to open it in 2 seconds. I think reasonable expectation for any car made in the last 15 years as well.

To be clear, I believe Kia and Hyundai have met my expectation and not for a second do I believe the police or prosecutors should be suing the manufacturers for this. The owners maybe.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
In most cases I disagree with dumb lawsuits. However in this instance I agree with them being sued. Though it should be by the owners of KIAs and Hyundai owners getting the money.

That wouldn't be a much more meritorious suit than the one reported.

I don't think a car maker has any duty to sell you a car that is not easy to steal. This is not a design flaw.

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:
Steal a car, lose a hand…

Damn that 8th amendment. Anglo-American law has not imposed maiming as a punishment for anything in hundreds of years, and certainly not for theft. That would certainly qualify as a cruel and unusual punishment.

Here’s the problem. Humans are wildly curious and inventive. Neither of those examples do I suspect the company thought would open with an aluminum shim or bic pen. Somebody just fucked around long enough and figured it out. It wasn’t a conspiracy.

They also adjusted the design to stop those attacks. Someone will figure out how to beat the new locks. That’s just how it is.

Nobody is at fault. Shit happens. If they had thought a bic pen would open their lock they would have fixed that because nobody wants to buy a lock that opens with an aluminum can/bic pen.

Still, did you sue the lock company? Do you think you should have? Would/should you have won?

Who gets to decide what is the minimum level of thievery necessary to steal your shit before you have a civil suit?

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
And am I the only one who knows how easy it is to hot wire the older cars? I can get in one and hot wire it and drive it away under a minute, as can lots of other people.

The mechanic I used to use 20 years ago for my 73 Nova showed me how to start it when the ignition switch failed late on a Friday. There wasn't time for him to get the part and change it out before heading home so he showed me how to hotwire it for the weekend.

I don't remember how to do it anymore, sadly. Thankfully the key still works. Maybe I should try a USB cord as a back-up.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Here’s the problem. Humans are wildly curious and inventive. Neither of those examples do I suspect the company thought would open with an aluminum shim or bic pen. Somebody just fucked around long enough and figured it out. It wasn’t a conspiracy.

They also adjusted the design to stop those attacks. Someone will figure out how to beat the new locks. That’s just how it is.

Nobody is at fault. Shit happens. If they had thought a bic pen would open their lock they would have fixed that because nobody wants to buy a lock that opens with an aluminum can/bic pen.

Still, did you sue the lock company? Do you think you should have? Would/should you have won?

Who gets to decide what is the minimum level of thievery necessary to steal your shit before you have a civil suit?

Don't forget, then filmed it so they could make money off the fees from TikTok and Utoob and told the world how to do it.

Apparently criminals have phones and watch videos between heists...

Perhaps someone could file a civil suit against UTok or TikToob for allowing videos that provide tips on how to commit crimes....

quote:

Originally posted by thumperfbc:

quote:

Originally posted by Flash-LB:
And am I the only one who knows how easy it is to hot wire the older cars? I can get in one and hot wire it and drive it away under a minute, as can lots of other people.

The mechanic I used to use 20 years ago for my 73 Nova showed me how to start it when the ignition switch failed late on a Friday. There wasn't time for him to get the part and change it out before heading home so he showed me how to hotwire it for the weekend.

I don't remember how to do it anymore, sadly. Thankfully the key still works. Maybe I should try a USB cord as a back-up.

Get a piece of insulated wire with alligator clips at both ends. It has to be long enough to go from the + terminal of the battery to the + terminal of your distributor.

Then short the starter solenoid to ground to crank over the starter.

Done

Now the funny thing is that actually seems reasonable. There is no reason to show people how to perform a crime on video. If someone posted a video on the best way to roofie your date, those platforms would nuke the video. How to steal a car? Here you go.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Here’s the problem. Humans are wildly curious and inventive. Neither of those examples do I suspect the company thought would open with an aluminum shim or bic pen. Somebody just fucked around long enough and figured it out. It wasn’t a conspiracy.

They also adjusted the design to stop those attacks. Someone will figure out how to beat the new locks. That’s just how it is.

Nobody is at fault. Shit happens. If they had thought a bic pen would open their lock they would have fixed that because nobody wants to buy a lock that opens with an aluminum can/bic pen.

Still, did you sue the lock company? Do you think you should have? Would/should you have won?

Who gets to decide what is the minimum level of thievery necessary to steal your shit before you have a civil suit?

Of course I didn’t sue over what I vaguely recall being a $60 lock. I don’t believe I should have. I don’t believe there was any conspiracy, that the company knowingly used an easily defeated lock, and I believe they changed the design going forward. I don’t believe Master Lock has changed their design though and I don’t use their locks for that reason.

Your last question is a conundrum. If you leave your keys in your car and someone steals it, then you are an idiot and share some responsibility for your car being stolen. Sure, nobody should steal your stuff ever, but you know that if you tape a $100 bill to a lamp post in NYC it will not be there an hour later.

Going back to a car. They come with keys and locks. That alone sets the expectation that it would be harder for a thief to steal the car without the key than with the key. As seen in this thread, none of this is new. Stealing cars by screwing around with the ignition switch by one account has been going on for 50 years. 30 years ago, I worked for a company that supplied door, ignition, glove box, etc. locks to the big three. They made the chip keys even then. Nothing new at this point or in the last 10 years for that matter.

Ya, Kia/Hyundai should have anticipated this. It doesn’t take a mechanical engineering degree and years of experience to look at the two part ignition switch and realize it’s a poor design. You don’t even need screw and a slide hammer or a really big screw driver. It literally snaps apart with your fingers and then you can start car.

It’s a design flaw.

If a product doesn't meet your needs, buy a different product.

I wonder how may Kia and Hyundai cars are being stolen in Korea.

I don't buy Kia or Hyundai. Do they warrant some sort of anti-theft technology? If they warrant something that is not working, then they have an obligation. If not, then caveat emptor prevails.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Ya, Kia/Hyundai should have anticipated this. It doesn’t take a mechanical engineering degree and years of experience to look at the two part ignition switch and realize it’s a poor design. You don’t even need screw and a slide hammer or a really big screw driver. It literally snaps apart with your fingers and then you can start car.

It’s a design flaw.

Perhaps it's not a robust design. They likely knew better options are available. But is it a design flaw? Where does it say they need to meet some minimum level or expectation for undesired entry / theft? What is the basis for a lawsuit?

I would say that most people’s home front door locks are secured with 150 year old technology.

Are we going to sue Schlage?

It seems any security solution can be bypassed. It's just a matter of how long it might take.

Computer security. Door locks. Safe locks. Car locks. Bike locks.

More often that not, these 'locks' just provide a false sense of security. They just buy time for you to react (if possible).

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

If there is a basic standard in the industry, they may not meet that.

What's the difference between a car that can be started in 30 seconds using a USB that's worth a few dollars, or a car that can be started in 30 seconds using a $5,000 device?



Both are started in 30 seconds. Why is one "faulty" and the other not?

Whichever method is chosen, listening to a bit of "Low Rider" gets you in the right mindset to pull off the heist smoothly.

The simple facts are ALL cars are easy to steal if you are a car thief. Some are just easier than others. The anti theft measures,however, are often successful in keeping out the rightful owner.

True. It still comes back to the question of who decides what is "thief proof" enough to avoid successful litigation?

All these examples are messed up to a certain degree but guys are throwing around the term "design flaw" very loosely and incorrectly. The ignition system works extremely well as an ignition system.

If someone siphons your gas is it a design defect because you don't have a locking fill door?

Once again, you have to ask who decides the minimums here? Sounds like more legislation which I know we all love around here.

How about this, stop buying low end Kia's? Let the market tell Kia what they think of this. Kia will fix it or people will not even GAS and keep buying them because they are inexpensive.

quote:

How about this, stop buying low end Kia's? Let the market tell Kia what they think of this. Kia will fix it or people will not even GAS and keep buying them because they are inexpensive.

Insurance rates should negate the ability to insure those models, like back in the late 60's high power engines and muscles cars were killed by insurance companies, and federal regulations.

Average price of a new non electric car is $42K,

Car manufacturers can add just about anything you want to the package, question is, how much will drive up the price, eliminating inexpensive models for people who can't afford the expensive alternatives.

I don't see how the city has standing to be a plaintiff and believe a judge should toss it.