https://www.cnn.com/americas/l...-06-20-23/index.html

Crews searching for the Titan submersible heard banging sounds every 30 minutes Tuesday, according to an internal government memo update on the search.

Four hours later, after additional sonar devices were deployed, banging was still heard, the memo said. It was unclear when the banging was heard Tuesday or for how long, based on the memo.

A subsequent update sent Tuesday night suggested more sounds were heard, though it was not described as “banging.”

“Additional acoustic feedback was heard and will assist in vectoring surface assets and also indicating continued hope of survivors,” according to that update.
A Canadian P3 aircraft also located a white rectangular object in the water, according to that update, but another ship set to investigate was diverted to help research the acoustic feedback instead, according to that update.

The Joint Rescue Coordination Center is working to find an underwater remote operated vehicle to help assist in the search, according to the memo.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
I have a question about that 96 hours of oxygen.

Is that normal breathing? I used to dive and an hour long tank wouldn't last an hour if you panic breath. You can burn through it pretty quickly I suspect that there is true panic in the vessel.

There are breathing techniques you can use to extend your air supply but it's not something I expect these people to have trained for.

If the vessel didn't implode and they are in total cold darkness, I suspect that panic set in and they started quick breathing. That 40 hrs of air the USCG talked about earlier may be much shorter than that.

I don't think you can compare an hour of SCUBA air vs an hour of air in a closed vehicle like a sub. Breathing in the sub doesn't exhaust to the ocean, so you won't be emptying a tank like you would while panic breathing during SCUBA diving.

The news is talking about 96 hours of oxygen, but isn't running out of oxygen not the problem? I thought the problem would be carbon dioxide poisoning. Can't your time be extended by deploying some CO2 scrubbers and by burning a "candle" (O2 generator)? I'm not that knowledgeable about such things. Is it just beyond a tiny sub's kit to have such gear on board?

^^It's got a couple different CO2 scrubbers onboard, some require power, others are passive. Plus oxygen tanks.

quote:

Originally posted by sigcrazy7:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
I have a question about that 96 hours of oxygen.

Is that normal breathing? I used to dive and an hour long tank wouldn't last an hour if you panic breath. You can burn through it pretty quickly I suspect that there is true panic in the vessel.

There are breathing techniques you can use to extend your air supply but it's not something I expect these people to have trained for.

If the vessel didn't implode and they are in total cold darkness, I suspect that panic set in and they started quick breathing. That 40 hrs of air the USCG talked about earlier may be much shorter than that.

I don't think you can compare an hour of SCUBA air vs an hour of air in a closed vehicle like a sub. Breathing in the sub doesn't exhaust to the ocean, so you won't be emptying a tank like you would while panic breathing during SCUBA diving.

The news is talking about 96 hours of oxygen, but isn't running out of oxygen not the problem? I thought the problem would be carbon dioxide poisoning. Can't your time be extended by deploying some CO2 scrubbers and by burning a "candle" (O2 generator)? I'm not that knowledgeable about such things. Is it just beyond a tiny sub's kit to have such gear on board?

I truly don't know. I'm thinking that the scrubbers will remove whatever CO2 there is but that it's only a 96 hours of O2 so when the O2 runs out they can't regenerate O2.

I might be wrong and admittedly, I'm just spitting into the wind.

Seems to me the OMG, the can’t get out from the inside is a moot point. Unless they are at or very near the surface, the water pressure isn’t going to allow the hatch to be removed. Even if it could be, they’d have no chance of survival.

Even at or near the surface, opening the hatch would allow the submersible to fill with water, it would the sink like a rock, and 5 people would be left treading water in the North Atlantic. That might give them another day.

In the news video, Pogue revealed a part of the safety waiver he had to sign to ride the Titan submarine.

“An experimental submersible vessel that has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body and could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma or death,” Pogue read before saying, “where do I sign?”

https://www.foxnews.com/us/can...ic-tourist-submarine

A Canadian aircraft deployed to assist with rescue efforts for the missing Titanic tourist submersible picked up "underwater noises" in the vessel's search area, according to the Coast Guard (USCG).

"Canadian P-3 aircraft detected underwater noises in the search area," the USCG in the Northeast region announced on Twitter early Wednesday morning.

The Coast Guard said the detection of the underwater sounds in the designated search area prompted investigators to deploy remotely operated vehicle to relocate and investigate the origin of the unusual noises.

Though the search efforts "yielded negative results," the USCG said the operation continues.

Earlier on Tuesday after a press briefing, Chief Petty Officer Robert Simpson declined reports of an alleged tapping or banging noise coming from the vessel, adding that crews have not heard "any sounds from the sub."

A former room mate in L.A. was in the navy in the 70's.

They gave him a job listening to the Pacific ocean.

Hours upon hours of listening for noises in the ocean.

A computer took that job , it could recognize fifty different animal noises and hundreds of mechanical noises.

But location back in the 80's still took at least three hydrophones to triangulate.

The craziness aside.......


The world needs people like those who went down in this submersible. Society advances by those who take risks to attempt to accomplish the difficult or impossible. That takes money, which in this case was coming from some of those on board.

When things go bad, we see the best that humanity has to offer. Governments working together, private parties stepping up, and smart people trying to solve a situation that is extremely uncommon. Technology and its users that may have practiced with it now get to engage in a real-world scenario. There are other technologies used for something completely different being utilized for this purpose. There is a seemingly insurmountable problem and countless people are putting in the work to see if they can pull off a miracle.

Regardless of the cause or the outcome, humankind will learn things from this event and ultimately be better for it.

^^^^^
Brings to mind the soccer team of kids that were trapped in Tham Luang Cave some years ago. The world responded. I believe a movie was made about it. Yup...Thirteen Lives (Amazon Prime).

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
The craziness aside.......


The world needs people like those who went down in this submersible. Society advances by those who take risks to attempt to accomplish the difficult or impossible. That takes money, which in this case was coming from some of those on board.

You're not wrong however, 1. this was a tourism trip and 2. there's plenty of indicators that OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush willfully disregarded a number of certifying and validating steps that possibly would have aided in their risk mitigation. We won't know for awhile, if/when an investigation concludes. Capt Cook and Merriwether & Lewis didn't take any sight-seeing clients on their trips. If anything, this episode reinforces the maxim that the ocean is trying to kill you, don't under-estimate it or, take it for granted.

Contrast OceanGate with how Hadal Exploration System's pursued their vessel DSV Limiting Factor, built by Triton Submarines, towards certification. Limiting Factor went on to pioneer multiple super-deep dives, setting a number of records and discoveries, to include USS Samuel B. Roberts. About a third of the way into the video, shows the extent to which they tested their pressure vessel to get certified, which leads to a level of liability protection for both builder and owner.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: corsair,

I keep going back to how long it took to find the Titanic, a fairly large ship.

Comparatively this would be like looking for a single Titanic lifeboat down there.

Even if they are located, if they are unable to surface, I'll guess it would be unlikely that a successful rescue plan could be developed and implemented before they run out of breathable air.

A sad tragedy but the world out there is not safe and everything has risks.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
The world needs people like those who went down in this submersible. Society advances by those who take risks to attempt to accomplish the difficult or impossible.

These people who have signed their own death warrant- they weren't advancing anything. It's already been done, and they were doing nothing but gawking at a wreck that's been examined in every possible way.

quote:

When things go bad, we see the best that humanity has to offer.

What I see is a morbid, sensationalist news media, who are raking in the loot from the misfortune of others, and who- I assure you- cannot wait to tell us of the drama of no more hammering sounds coming at half-hour intervals.

It does not need to be demonstrated that all decent people wish for these lives to be saved. Who needs to say that they wish for these people to be rescued? Such a thing does not set one apart from the decent people of the world.

Regarding rescue, I am sorry to say that all indications are that we won't reach these people in time. I'll be very happy to be wrong, but real life is not a TV movie.

quote:

Regardless of the cause or the outcome, humankind will learn things from this event and ultimately be better for it.

Sounds great, but it is not so. About the only thing that will be learned is how dangerous it is to go to incredible depths in a metal can. If those people die or already have died, it was for nothing. It's a harsh truth, but it is the truth, despite what we may tell ourselves and others.

And, "humankind"? It's "mankind" unless you want to be politically correct, in which case you might as well go full Trudeau and say "peoplekind".

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
I have a question about that 96 hours of oxygen.

Is that normal breathing? I used to dive and an hour long tank wouldn't last an hour if you panic breath. You can burn through it pretty quickly I suspect that there is true panic in the vessel.

There are breathing techniques you can use to extend your air supply but it's not something I expect these people to have trained for.

If the vessel didn't implode and they are in total cold darkness, I suspect that panic set in and they started quick breathing. That 40 hrs of air the USCG talked about earlier may be much shorter than that.

This in spades. I carried an emergency chemical breathing device in a past career and, while I never used it I have spoken with people who had to deploy them. Stressful situations result in rapid breathing which reduces the actual “breathing time” to a fraction of the published time. It has been a while, but I seem to recall that “actual” was around one-half to a third of the time printed on the canister.

quote:

You're not wrong however, there's plenty of indicators that OceanGate CEO Stockton Rush willfully disregarded a number of certifying and validating steps that possibly would have aided in the risk mitigation. We won't know for awhile if/when an investigation concludes.

This may be accurate when all is said and done, and it may not,

A lot is media posturing to keep the story controversial, public infatuation with the whole thing going, sell more soap. Adding in a whistleblower is a publishers wet dream.

Who went down, who built it, was it safe, someone said they told them no, was it tested, it's made with used parts, runs on a game controller, tabloid journalism style... Even Hollywood poked fun at this journalistic voyeurism of bought professionals in Die Hard with the "pundits" clip, Don Henleys Dirty Laundry.

People love train wrecks and NASCAR pile ups...

I see no less than 20 articles pop up a day from all forms of "news sources", people wanting my clicks.. no thanks....

Looks like they are going to die doing what they loved.

Screaming in the dark where nobody can hear.

The recovery, if they even try at all, will cost in the tens of millions and the company will be bankrupt before the day is over.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
[QUOTE]Regardless of the cause or the outcome, humankind will learn things from this event and ultimately be better for it.

Sounds great, but it is not so. About the only thing that will be learned is how dangerous it is to go to incredible depths in a metal can. If those people die or already have died, it was for nothing. It's a harsh truth, but it is the truth, despite what we may tell ourselves and others.

One of the videos Skull Leader shared on the last page included how the Titanic disaster lead to the International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea that still in affect today for surface vessels. It was created and adopted within 2 years of the Titanic sinking.

If (and it's a big if) this incident inspires a subsea International Safety Convention that would be the only positive thing that I could see coming from this.

I gotta wonder ,
About the vetting process prior to making the decision to trust a half dozen strangers with my life.

Does a millionaire spend $10,000.00 to investigate an operation like this ?
And make the decision to go or not ?

Sound travels a long way underwater compared to in the atmosphere. Just go scuba diving you will hear lots of things while you are underwater that you can't hear on the surface.

I suspect much of this is hype created by the media to keep people watching unfortunately.

I've been watching this guy's breakdowns for years. I love his take on current and past submarine events.