quote:

Originally posted by saigonsmuggler:
TBH it's a fail by all who were in that chat. They should've known better and demand that the convo be moved to an approved secured comm.

It was careless by the majority of the group, and possibly worse on the part of Waltz. Either incompetence or an intentional act.


.

Again, Signal has been approved for use within our government. In sworn testimony Ratcliff indicated that the app was loaded onto his phone and computer by our government and he was told its use was permitted for government communications. From what I have seen of Ratcliff, he is a straight shooter. There has been no pushback that I have seen on this point from any official source. I do not know if the app available to us and the version of Signal used by the government are different. They may be.

Also, SecDef determines if the info in that chat was considered classified or not (as well as the President). Both have said it was not classified info. End of story. What we believe should and should not be classified does not matter. We do not determine these things.

Again, none of us know anything about how, when, and what communications are permitted by government employees using Signal at the cabinet level and if this is essentially the same app we have access too.

As for Waltz... it appears he has not been honest in his statements about what happened (I said appears because we do not know and we only get information from media sources that all are trying to increase traffic to their sites, X accounts, etc.).

I think we all need take a breath here. I am confident that the President will get to the bottom of this and take any action necessary to punish those who need to be punished.

quote:

Originally posted by bozman:
Again, Signal has been approved for use within our government. In sworn testimony Ratcliff indicated that the app was loaded onto his phone and computer by our government and he was told its use was permitted for government communications.

Do you have any source that Signal was approved for classified communication by the government?

Approved for general communication for government employees is much different than approved for classified communication. It's a whole nother world.

Most government employees are uncleared (ie have no security clearance).

quote:

Also, SecDef determines if the info in that chat was considered classified or not (as well as the President). Both have said it was not classified info. End of story. What we believe should and should not be classified does not matter. We do not determine these things.

Workers with government clearance are taught what's classified and what's not. But really this is common sense so let's call a spade a spade. Yeah it was classified. Yeah it was OPSEC.

Elon Musk and DOGE team give behind the scenes look at their mission

quote:

Originally posted by saigonsmuggler:
...But really this is common sense so let's call a spade a spade. Yeah it was classified...

So, what does that make Hegseth and the President, when they said it was not?

Siagonsmuggler...

The only source we have indicating whether Signal is approved is the sworn testimony of SecDef, the DNI, the CIA Director, etc. I doubt you, I, or anyone else on this forum have access to the internal protocols concerning the use of Signal. If there are members here that do, and they are able to comment, then I am willing to listen and change my opinion.

This is one of 20+ articles recapping the hearing where these assertations were made. This is from a left leaning source, but the article appears to accurately quote the testimony.

Time Article

There is also video of the testimony on YouTube.

Signal Leak Hearing

As far as it being classified info, those who make those determinations said the info was not classified. These are the people who determine classification status. If they say it is not classified, then I have to believe them. We will just have to disagree because I am not going to change my opinion on this matter unless they change their statements.

SecDef:

quote:

“So, let’s me get this straight. The Atlantic released the so-called ‘war plans’ and those ‘plans’ include: No names. No targets. No locations. No units. No routes. No sources. No methods. And no classified information. Those are some really shitty war plans."

If the Dems can change things like classification status, how to handle sensitive documents, and what is proper regarding state secrets on a whim and without consequence, then the Republicans can as well.

It depends on who's the original classification authority. If a Navy admiral submitted the operational plan, then he and his office is the OCA. Only he, outside of the President, or someone specifically granted power to do so by the OCA, can declassify the information, before the classification expires. And there's a formal process for declassifying, not just willy nilly saying it. There's always a chain of custody for such information - who was briefed, how it's transferred, communicated, what's allowed and what's not, etc. It's strictly controlled.

I understand that the president can authorize some of his staff to declassify on his behalf but again there's a process for it.

I'd think that the Navy or CENTCOM commanding officers who were the OCA on the operational plan would've classified that information at some of the highest level of classification, most likely compartmentalized. Otherwise it'd be high negligence on their part. As mentioned earlier, cleared workers above confidential are taught to recognize classified info even when it's not properly marked. In this case though, even basic common sense tells us that it's a highly classified piece of information before the actual attack.

quote:

"Rep. Don Bacon, a Nebraska Republican and a former Air Force Brigadier General, stopped short of calling for resignations, but made clear late Monday that he believed the officials on the group chat acted recklessly.

“I will guarantee you, 99.99% with confidence, Russia and China are monitoring those two phones,” he told CNN. “So I just think it’s a security violation, and there’s no doubt that Russia and China saw this stuff within hours of the actual attacks on Yemen or the Houthis.”

quote:

Originally posted by 41:
Elon Musk and DOGE team give behind the scenes look at their mission

This was an outstanding and very informative interview.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
This was an outstanding and very informative interview.

It was indeed, thanks for posting it 41.

My wife announced last night “EVERYONE should watch this interview (Bret Baier and the DOGE team)”. Musk is only part of the reason for the power of DOGE. The rest of his team interviewed were experienced, practical, patriotic, articulate, totally focused on their mission. TBH they explained details way better than Musk. It left the viewer totally impressed with the DOGE effort. And of course, Musk gives credit to Trump and his cabinet who make DOGE’s work possible.
An absolutely bravura interview.

quote:

Originally posted by bozman:
Again, Signal has been approved for use within our government.

The subject of the following thread, Katherine Maher, is not only the CEO/president of NPR, but is the chairman of the board for Signal.
https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0601935/m/5430093415

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

quote:

Originally posted by bozman:
Again, Signal has been approved for use within our government.

The subject of the following thread, Katherine Maher, is not only the CEO/president of NPR, but is the chairman of the board for Signal.
https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...0601935/m/5430093415

Encrypted means encrypted.

quote:

Originally posted by 41:


Elon Musk and DOGE team give behind the scenes look at their mission

Would someone that knows how embed this video in the DOGE thread? Thanks.
P. S. I now know how to pronounce ’DOGE’.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forum...120065315#5120065315

P. P. S. Never mind – I managed to do it myself.

quote:

Originally posted by bozman:
Siagonsmuggler...

The only source we have indicating whether Signal is approved is the sworn testimony of SecDef, the DNI, the CIA Director, etc. I doubt you, I, or anyone else on this forum have access to the internal protocols concerning the use of Signal.

Signal is definitely an approved text source, or at least was when I retired in 23. Not for classified info, but for a lot of things right up to the edge and you might be surprised how much that encompasses. I used it frequently for operational planning & personnel issues, because not all operational planning is secret. A lot of logistical stuff is simply that, leave out some items (units, capabilities, etc.) and one can have a very detailed conversation that only participants with context could know. Truthfully there is not a better tool for most deconfliction. Want to issue everyone encrypted satellite phones? Ok, but it’s tough to beat the versatility of the cell phone in your pocket.

That said, what SECDEF sent (precise times certain assets would TOT weapons) would be way over the line in my opinion and I can’t imagine anyone at a lower level normalizing that. Also, and I read the whole published chat, it seems foolishly unnecessary. Why would senior cabinet heads need that level of granularity? It came off as immature to me.

My take: it was dumb it no harm no foul so let’s all move along. This was nothing like Clinton keeping TS/SCI/SAP on a hidden private server in her house… which was definitely compromised by adversaries. At most the level of classification on the chats would be SECRET without caveats which is pretty low. This from a guy who has done a lot of secret air strikes in Yemen, so my knowledge on this particular situation is relevant.

Thank you for that assessment cowboy. The experience you bring to this matter is very meaningful to me. I tend to get lost in the weeds relatively easily.
s.

I haven't finished watching the DOGE interview but the waste is sickening. Especially if we're getting 'taxed' via the magic money machines.

After DOGE stops the bleeding, the people who approved the spending need to be held to account. Let their punishments set an example for anybody in the future who would spend wastefully - make sure they think twice.

Yes, several officials have now confirmed that Signal isn't authorized for classified communication. I'm a cleared worker and I know that at my location, it isn't authorized.

Also internally in the government it is indeed seen as a classified data spill.

Nothing secret is authorized on unclassified networks and Signal is only available as an unclassified app. I had a secret cell phone capable of checking SIPR and even remote log into JIANT (which is still just secret but with read-in caveats). If I had that years ago, i'm certain these high-level players have access to much better stuff. Texting that information was sloppy. I'm guessing Hegseth assumed it was not classified since he neutered details, he's said as much publicly. And honestly who knows, he is the declassification authority for everything military.

I would certainly have been crushed for posting that type of information in Signal chat; not UCMJ but also not in fight club anymore. I think they should just acknowledge this was a mistake and move on. I'm very interested in how waltz added this journalist originally-- is he somebody who can be trusted? That aspect of the story is far more intriguing than Hegseth trying to impress people by parroting TOTs a general fed him.