^I get it. Traffic in one lane comes to a halt, traffic in the other lane keeps moving. Traffic in the halted lane gets butt hurt. Or, you could have an equal amount of traffic moving at close to the same speed in both lanes, merging every other car at a single point, and everyone goes on their merry way.

Put another way, the zipper merge means everyone is equally screwed.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Here’s a link to that state’s DOT: Link

In it there is a nice picture that designates a point where people are not supposed to pass each other and a point where the lanes converge. It looks suspiciously like a zipper merge. Everyone takes a turn between the no passing point and the merge point. The only difference is the designated no passing point. With the zipper merge, it’s every other car at the merge point. With TN it’s still every other car, but it’s between the no passing point and the point where the cones converge.

I see nothing in there about taking turns.

I do see "merge as quickly as possible". That doesn't mean "wait to the merge point".

I don't care about the relative merits of either method. They're the same as long as everyone uses just one of them. The problem starts when people using both are on the same road.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:
Once the traffic up to, through and possibly beyond merge point has come to a complete stop for .1 to 2.0 miles, I don't understand how this actually helps with overall throughput of vehicles since they are already bumper to bumper.

Do studies ever differentiate between these two actual scenarios? I don't think they do from what I've seen.

Conducting studies, both Department of Transportation and college thesis, is how they came up with Zipper Merging. The researchers didn't realize that some drivers lacked the ability to understand
how the technique worked and needed to "line up early" and resent those who followed the correct Rules of the Road instead. As I posted earlier, it's a left over from elementary level education.

If the technique is executed by all drivers, traffic never slows down to bumper-to-bumper. This does require that all vehicles leave space between them and the vehicle they are following

A zipper merge also means that the merge is happening at the optimal location, where it’s planned for and controlled, instead of an ever changing location. What about if the merge backs up to the point it’s before the signage? Or perhaps the merge point backs up to the point it’s in a curve or over a hill, what then?

The backup isn’t necessarily because of merging issues. Sometimes it’s simply because the road is above capacity. If a one lane roadway could carry the same amount of traffic as two, why do we have multi-lane roads? You cannot reduce a road by 50% and expect it to never become congested, if it is already carrying more than 50% capacity.

There are few things in life as satisfying as the camaraderie one feels as the whole line of cars blocks the one asshole that zipped to the end of the merge lane from getting over.

I have crunched the quarter panels of the assholes that blow down the open 400 South ramp lane and try to bully into the backed up 400 North ramp lane more times than I can remember.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:
There are few things in life as satisfying as the camaraderie one feels as the whole line of cars blocks the one asshole that zipped to the end of the merge lane from getting over.

That is true, and proof that the majority of people are easily butt hurt and having little control in their lives wish to share that with others.

Buddy was a top engineer in KYTC, we discussed these things, and his take was that people were too stupid, stubborn, or just assholes, or all three, to realize the simplicity and effective methods of transportation that engineers properly designed to efficiently move traffic. They will fight for their position will every inch of their bumpers in order to hold the line,

Probably the same aholes that will sit in a parking space until the person waiting gives up to back out. Read about a study of people in parking spaces and found that the time for someone to leave a space more than doubled when someone was waiting.

His Two examples,

Zipper Merge

Cloverleaf Interchanges

Both have the same issues, idiots and assholes who think they know whats best, and, will as a group defy the proper method with whatever reasoning they have, distance to merge, number of cars, time in queue, length of ass chewing by boss or wife, whatever made their day what it is, no matter how well you build it, there are people who will never, ever accept they are the problem.

Then again, he's an engineer so....

100% with that engineers impression. When the ahole you seeks power over the other guy meets the guy who sailed past his earlier chances to merge at the end of the lane the backups gets long fast. Everyone already in the thru lane considers the those stuck in the ending lane as line cutters at that point. It would help if everyone didn’t drive with their nose in the next cars ass and made some effort to maintain a constant speed.
I watched an acquaintance do that parking space ahole wait. That sealed my low opinion of him but it tooks years before the rest of his selfish asshat behavior made me give up on him.

quote:

Good Lord

Another one that cannot grasp the simple concept of zipper merging

yes, it's amazing. I think it has more to do with psychology than driving

quote:

Originally posted by nasig:

quote:

Good Lord

Another one that cannot grasp the simple concept of zipper merging

yes, it's amazing. I think it has more to do with psychology than driving

That is my belief also.

It is the same mind set that causes one to look for the space furthest forward to merge pending an upcoming turn...or "racing" cars on a freeway on-ramp to merge in front of them

Cooperation is often difficult for people. Many have an inherent need to "win" even if it means they lose more than they win.

quote:

Originally posted by rsbolo:
Cooperation is often difficult for people. Many have an inherent need to "win" even if it means they lose more than they win.

I think it is more a need to be "Right"

When one makes a decision that a certain process, merging early, is "Right" they pat themselves on the back for being smart and considerate

When another person precedes pass them to the blending point to correctly Zipper merge:
1. They get angry because they are being passed
2. Rather than admitting that they made the incorrect choice, they blame the other person for Cheating
3. It can't be they they weren't smart enough to make the correct choice, so the other person must be Wrong
4. Now they feel justified in blocking that other person from merging...because that other person is obviously Wrong and Cheating

Did we already discuss that if someone is passing the already merged car that used to be in front them, they aren’t zippering.?
Zipper teeth don’t rush forward and expect the zipper to reopen and let them in.

quote:

Originally posted by jed7s9b:
Did we already discuss that if someone is passing the already merged car that used to be in front them, they aren’t zippering.?

A car merging before the blend point is in the wrong for not correctly utilizing the correct zipper merging technique at the correct point in traffic

Just because the car in front of you utilizes an incorrect technique don't mean you have to also

Didn't we already discuss how the zipper merge is not the universally accepted "correct" way to do it everywhere?

If we had actual licensing and car inspection standards there’d be much fewer shit heads on the road who shouldn’t be driving. But we just gotta let every swinging richard get a license here.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Didn't we already discuss how the zipper merge is not the universally accepted "correct" way to do it everywhere?

I blame the state here (PA), and others like it. It has been years but I recall a long term project (on I-283) where signage stated "fill both lanes to merge point". Then the signs changes to take your turn here, essentially 50 yards or so to Zipper. This project always had stopped or slow traffic.

Haven't seen that posted in years, and instead they post "right lane closed ahead move left", or whichever. With no one needing to stop this can work, but when it bunches up things go south quickly. Traffic control could or should post better instructions. my .02

Yeah. It really is too easy to get and keep a license to drive. Merging and allowing a merge is a challenge beyond most folks. I remember construction in Virginia that had multiple signs in the few miles preceding the orange barrels. Lots of cars still waited to the last minute and a few of them just couldn’t figure out on which side of the orange barrels to drive.
As they say, consider the average intelligence. Half of the population is dumber then that.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
I drive a ragtop manual transmission. I always leave room in front of me and if a moron tries take it I’m happy to honk/move.

If they hit me - they get a real nice $200,000 bill. In the meeting with my huge attorney.


The good news is I quit worrying about theft. I realized with a chopped fly wheel and a GT3 RS racing clutch, no one is ever gonna be able to drive that thing but me.

Hmmm… I’ve never seen/heard of a GT3 RS ragtop and unless yours is 10 years or more older they don’t have a manual either.;-(

Porsche Spyder owner here.