You might be able to opt out of the time of use billing.

I'm on SDG&E and after looking at my bill for the past few years realize they're right, I use most my electricity during that high peak timeframe. By opting out I'm saving money - ESPECIALLY while working from home.

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
You might be able to opt out of the time of use billing.

I'm on SDG&E and after looking at my bill for the past few years realize they're right, I use most my electricity during that high peak timeframe. By opting out I'm saving money - ESPECIALLY while working from home.

Can you elaborate more? Not sure I'm following. What should I look at on my bill (I'm not sure my bill has any useful information); the tesla app only shows generation for me, not consumption. And then what are my options other than time of use billing? If there is flexibility, why doesn't Tesla and/or PGE explain the options to us?

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I'm generating a peak of 7.4 at around 11:30am today.

Nice!! Peak for my system is about 6.8KW; I'm getting about 53KWHr per day now. I just checked my bill: I'm netting negative even during peak hours (tens of KWhr); during off peak, I can net negative north of 100KWHr. But I need to look into this TOU stuff you guys are talking about. But based on the thread, I adjust the AC to cool low during 3-6 (solar output is still higher than AC consumption) and then raise the temp at 6 so that I use less during peak hours when solar output is low.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I'm generating a peak of 7.4 at around 11:30am today.

Nice!! Peak for my system is about 6.8KW; I'm getting about 53KWHr per day now. I just checked my bill: I'm netting negative even during peak hours (tens of KWhr); during off peak, I can net negative north of 100KWHr. But I need to look into this TOU stuff you guys are talking about. But based on the thread, I adjust the AC to cool low during 3-6 (solar output is still higher than AC consumption) and then raise the temp at 6 so that I use less during peak hours when solar output is low.

Yeah, I'd give you more guidance, but I'm not familiar with PGE.

Here with SCE, ToU is mandatory for Solar customers. It's expected that ToU will be mandatory for regular customers soon too. ToU was mandatory for all customers with the Los Angeles DWP when I lived there 15ish years ago.

From my 30 seconds of Googling, you may or may not be on ToU billing with PGE. It doesn't appear outright mandatory for Solar customers up there. You'll need to do more research specifically with PGE.

In any case, ToU is rarely beneficial to solar customers. The whole point of ToU is to charge customers more money during periods of net system demand. In other words, they want to charge YOU more money for power when you need it most (i.e, at night when there's no sun), and give everyone a price break when you are generating excess power for everyone else to use.

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:

quote:

Originally posted by LS1 GTO:
You might be able to opt out of the time of use billing.

I'm on SDG&E and after looking at my bill for the past few years realize they're right, I use most my electricity during that high peak timeframe. By opting out I'm saving money - ESPECIALLY while working from home.

Can you elaborate more? Not sure I'm following. What should I look at on my bill (I'm not sure my bill has any useful information); the tesla app only shows generation for me, not consumption. And then what are my options other than time of use billing? If there is flexibility, why doesn't Tesla and/or PGE explain the options to us?

Tesla (or any other subcontractor) won't tell their buyer what they should do with regards to how another supplier invoices nor how you, the buyer, should direct another supplier to invoice. (Tesla is not a consultant.)

You as the Buyer contact PG&E and tell them you want to opt out of time of use invoicing. They'll give you the run around because they (like SDG&E) make a ton more money on TOU billing) but eventually, will switch you.

Now on tiered billing - the more you use in a month (ie, receive from PG&E), the more each tier of KW will cost you.

If you are using more electricity than you are generating during that high peak timeframe then, your account is being debited ("charged") as much as you would if you are on a TOU plan.

What I am trying to note here is; the electricity sourced from PG&E will always be at the lowest tier when on a tiered plan (because on a given billing cycle you are generating more than you use). If you are on a TOU plan, then PG&E will charge you for the KW rate during the time of day it costs everyone else - regardless of how much you generate during a billing cycle.

End result - you'll be earning more credits each month on a tiered plan than on a TOU plan.

Thanks. I think I understand. PGE prove again what assholes they are - why don't they just keep me on the default tiered plan? Why change to TOU when I get solar? I think no matter what, my annual net will be the compulsory amount only and I'll get pennies on the dollar for any credits. But there is at least a principle involved - don't fucking try to cheat your customers. As a regional monopoly utility, why are they allowed to engage in practices that maximize their profit?

Here's another kicker; used to be where the utility companies paid you for the excess electricity generated based on how much they were selling it.

Then they went to the CPUC and got that changed - they buy the electricity from you based on the lowest price they pay (electricity costs less at 2am than it does at 4pm) AND, they were allowed to do that TOU invoicing.

SDG&E bills show when during the day most electricity is used so that helps determine the customer decide on the best plan - if they actually read their bill. About the only people who benefit from TOU are the utility companies, their share holders and, those people are sleeping from noon to 8pm.

All others are Eff You Cee Teed - fucted!

Tesla/SolarCity are the cheapest for good reason. The minute something goes wrong your only recourse is to work with level 1 reps on busy phone lines. I know 3 people personally who went with Tesla because they were the cheapest and all 3 have problems with their systems. One was so bad when the inverter failed the whole system shut down and Tesla kept billing him monthly while he pulled energy from the grid, essentially costing him double. Tesla kept telling him they would fix it for 8 months until he got an attorney, resolved the issue and sold the house because he no longer wanted anything to do with Tesla.

He's not alone: https://www.consumeraffairs.co...nergy/solarcity.html

Plenty of frustration when trying to fix systems that failed.

Remember when Walmart put Tesla panels on their stores and then caught fire? Part of that settlement was to have Tesla pay for the removal of all the panels in addition to the voided contract. Stay away from Tesla/Solarcity. You get what you pay for and this is your home.

I just pulled the trigger on some panels for my house. Not Tesla tiles. But regular panels. I'm in bad need of a new roof. So I get the %26 tax credit for my roof replacement as well as the panels. Also financing is at 1.49%. Pretty low financing and we are high energy users. Wife pretty much keeps the house freezing 24/7.

With the production quoted & cost of everything. I'll be basically breaking even and getting a free roof. Pulled the trigger and waiting on permitting.

Here's the thing: I knew a handful of people who have had Tesla/SolarCity for a number of years with good results. And Tesla was 1/2 the cost of others. Even if I shared your concerns (and I did to some extent), I had no alternative - I knew nobody who used any other company.

I did check on the components used by Tesla and they were all good - products I would have bought myself if DIY. ISR inverters and Korean or Japanese panels.

I'm not sure a different company would have resulted differently other than higher costs.

What are you guys using for kWh on a daily or monthly basis?

Looks like my family of 4 uses roughly 600 kWh per month (20 kWh per day) @ $0.12 per kWh. My May bill was $87.57 ($71.35 for usage, $12.50 basic service charge and $3.72 in misc fees).

At ~600 kWh per month I don't think I'd see an advantage in going solar. I live at 7,400 feet above sea level, so we don't need AC in the summer as we rarely get above the upper 80's to low 90's at the hottest..

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Here's the thing: I knew a handful of people who have had Tesla/SolarCity for a number of years with good results. And Tesla was 1/2 the cost of others. Even if I shared your concerns (and I did to some extent), I had no alternative - I knew nobody who used any other company.

I did check on the components used by Tesla and they were all good - products I would have bought myself if DIY. ISR inverters and Korean or Japanese panels.

I'm not sure a different company would have resulted differently other than higher costs.

The problem with Tesla/Solarcity isn't the equipment it's the installers and warranty service. Tesla sub contracts the work out to whoever is available. When the system has an issue you'll find yourself in the middle of a bunch of finger pointing while you're paying Tesla's monthly payment + the electricity from the grid while the system isn't working.

My brother in law works for a solar company. When his homeowners have a problem they call him. I've been out with him and he'll get a call about a system problem and he'll start the process to fix it right away. Good luck having that level of service with Tesla. The company he works for has 3 install crews in the territory. Their installs are booked out 4-6 weeks because each crew is flown out to company HQ to spend 2 months learning how to install on all different roofing types and for different climates. They do this because their warranty depends on making sure the install is done to a certain specification. Tesla has no quality control which is why they have so many issues with their installs. In a day and age where companies can buy 5 star reviews the 2.5 star reviews for Tesla don't lie. Solar systems are a 25+ year commitment and there's a good chance at some point equipment is going to have to be replaced. If you haven't read the reviews for Tesla/Solarcity I encourage you to do so. Their experiences are verbatim what I've heard first hand from people I know who went Tesla for the cost savings.

It's not that I disagree with what you're saying - I'm just pointing out that all the solar companies are just names on a piece of paper. And I went with Tesla because they are a large brand and I know people who have had good experiences to date. I knew nobody who went with other companies in this area.

If I have problems, perhaps it will be challenging to work with Tesla warranty. That being said, it's done already (oh, I purchased outright so there are no monthly payments). One only hopes for good experiences moving forward.

Goat, For my 8KW system, I'm seeing about 35KWh during winter, 55KWh during summer (daily generation). My rate was probably at least double yours with usage of about 1.5-2x yours. I was hitting $350-400 bills during summer.

The Tesla/SolarCity thing might also have regional differences. Or might have improved over time. Their installers for my project were Tesla employees and not subcontractors. Perhaps this is because I live in a major market area for them, and this may differ in places where they do not have many customers.

They were very professional, clean and organized, and they observed safety procedures as best as I could tell--harnesses, helmets, hi-viz uniforms, etc.

I had a licensed electrician on site the entire day, who also served as the project foreman, and a separate consultant to meet with the city inspector to resolve minor issues if any were found.

When it's all said and done, I'm more confident that Tesla will be here in 10 years to honor a warranty than a local company.

Also, with Tesla being half the cost--and solar equipment getting cheaper over time--my break even is much sooner than it would be had I used a different installer. If, in 10 years from now different tech is available or my system is acting funky, my system will have already been paid for at year 5.5. Having a system paid off in a shorter period of time gives me flexibility to upgrade, add, or remove when the time comes.

Several people around here have solar, a few Teslas, from the quotes I can't see why anyone would buy from a local solar company, I'm seeing 30%+ higher costs from non Tesla companies.

quote:

Originally posted by 1967Goat:
What are you guys using for kWh on a daily or monthly basis?

Looks like my family of 4 uses roughly 600 kWh per month (20 kWh per day) @ $0.12 per kWh. My May bill was $87.57 ($71.35 for usage, $12.50 basic service charge and $3.72 in misc fees).

At ~600 kWh per month I don't think I'd see an advantage in going solar. I live at 7,400 feet above sea level, so we don't need AC in the summer as we rarely get above the upper 80's to low 90's at the hottest..

My Aug-to-Sep bill was the highest with 42.8 kWh daily use for a total of 1,284kWh and a bill of $322.14. The average price per kWh would be $.251, but we're on a tiered usage plan--energy spent at the margin is costing $.27 per kWh and the next tier up would be $.33/kWh.

May of last year was my lowest of 540kWh (17.41kWh/day), averaging $.194 per kWh, and costing $.26 at the margin. Next tier up is $.46kWh.

Because of tiered billing, the more we use the higher the per-kWh average skews.

For the past 12 billing periods, I've used 9483 kWh for an average of 26kWh a day.

We're downright miserly with our power usage, but our house is 4300 sq./ft. We often let indoor temps hit 82-84 degrees before the wife lets me turn on the air. I'm looking forward to using the A/C more.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Several people around here have solar, a few Teslas, from the quotes I can't see why anyone would buy from a local solar company, I'm seeing 30%+ higher costs from non Tesla companies.

I see/read a lot of naysayers here.

Worst case - if your house burns down due to bad engineering or faulty install, you have recourse for compensation.

IMO - the only screw your are getting is if PG&E refuses or doesn't allow you to get off of a Time of Use Plan and onto a tiered plan.

I'd also like to remind anyone here that I have a Tesla referral code.

I'll happily split my referral bonus with you. I'm mainly looking forward to getting the Powerwall perk if I refer 10 new installs

About three or four years I was able to show an MBA professor how that Tesla car can only cost ~$60K.

Add enough solar to your house to offset what your monthly gasoline and electric bills are after factoring in your current electric bill (with A/C to keep the casa at 70 degrees in the summer ) plus the forecasted usage of electricity to charge your Tesla (now your daily commuter).

Electric bill = $300/month
Gasoline bill = $300/month (more now that gas is in the $4.50 / gal range)

Your solar panel install - $200/month?

Net savings - $400/month = $24K over 60 months to be applied to your electric vehicle payment

Rough numbers but still... (Only applies if your commute is within the vehicle range, you own your house, and you have another vehicle for long(er) drives than the electric vehicle can support)

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:

The average price per kWh would be $.251, but we're on a tiered usage plan--energy spent at the margin is costing $.27 per kWh and the next tier up would be $.33/kWh.

May of last year was my lowest of 540kWh (17.41kWh/day), averaging $.194 per kWh, and costing $.26 at the margin. Next tier up is $.46kWh.

HOLY CRAP! I thought my per kWh was expensive at $0.12. My parents in Virginia pay closer to $0.08 per kWh! Those prices are insane...yes, I realize it's CA, but wow.