Tesla has been known to be very agile with their pricing on their cars--regularly dropping and raising prices in response to external factors.

My guess right now is that there is a solar panel and inverter shortage. Rather than use up the panels that they can get from their suppliers on basic installations with low margins, they're bundling their available panels with higher margin solar walls and raising prices overall to keep their bottom line healthy with limited inventory.

I would guess that when panels become easily available again, prices will drop and basic installs will come back and Tesla will compete again on price.

So, not that they are bundling per se, but prioritizing customers who are interested in buying powerwalls as well. Sounds reasonable.

Or, they are not moving the panels, and now they are combining them with smaller systems so you can run off the battery and buy smaller panel systems.

It's not a totally bad idea, but you need to consider customers not inclined to put a high cost maintenance item (battery wall) with an inverter

All it did was make me start looking harder at the competition...

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
My guess right now is that there is a solar panel and inverter shortage. Rather than use up the panels that they can get from their suppliers on basic installations with low margins, they're bundling their available panels with higher margin solar walls and raising prices overall to keep their bottom line healthy with limited inventory.

I would guess that when panels become easily available again, prices will drop and basic installs will come back and Tesla will compete again on price.

That is my guess also. It's too big an investment to panic jump because of a temporary shortage...I'm willing to wait

We're seeing the same sort of pricing behavior inn other industries affected by shortages.

No graphics cards for computers--all the inventory is going into high end gaming computers. If you want a high end graphics card, you'll have to buy it bundled with with a computer.

No semiconductors for cars. Car manufacturers are prioritizing top end trims with higher margins.

I think I had my first true-up. I think I paid about $160 for the year; I believe it would have been around $100 but for the system being down for the past month during the hottest time of the year.

So, I think I'm on track to break even in about 4-5 years still. And this is with increased usage of the AC. I don't really save any more money by using less AC. But I can use it more than before without increasing the bill.

After breakeven, I think I'll be net positive about $3000+ per year. It's enough to afford a new car every decade.

Did they say what went wrong with your system?

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
In June (I think), Tesla announced that they were dropping the price on their solar panels + install. The promise was that they would be the cheapest way to get solar panels on your roof, and they offered a price match guarantee--if you can get an proposal from any other solar installer, they will match you on a price per KWh basis.

My wife and I recently moved into a bigger/older house, and the power bill was a little out of hand with the AC usage (apparently, new babies need to be kept cool. Who knew?). Figured that since I'm working from home now with the COVID-19 nonsense, I might as well take advantage of this time to schedule contractors and whatnot so I can be here to supervise. So, off I go to looking for solar.

HOLY CRAP! Telsa undercut my other proposals by like 30-40%. Their pricing is flat rate, and pretty transparent. It comes out to be pretty close to $12k, installed, for an 8kwh system (after the 26% tax credit).

Nearest competitor? Almost $20k! (Again, after tax credits). Another competitor, $23k. What a joke. How do these other guys stay in business?

Anyway, I'll keep you posted on how it goes. But, at my current energy usage, these panels should pay themselves off after 5.5 years, then it's free power after that. Panels have a 25 year warranty, and if I sell the house, the panels should add a little bit of resale value.

Anyway, Tesla has a referral program. If I can make 10 referrals, I can get a free Powerwall backup battery. That would go a long way towards my emergency preparedness, sooooo if anyone needs a referral, let me know!

Older post reply..

Just wondering how the Tesla install is working out as I am looking at a Tesla install.

I have toyed with this idea a couple of times. What stops me is: What do they do when you have a foot (or more) of snow on your roof? Are you back to the grid at that point? Winter can last a fair time up here and with the insulation in my house, the snow doesn't melt off any too quick.

quote:

Originally posted by nra-life-member:

Older post reply..

Just wondering how the Tesla install is working out as I am looking at a Tesla install.

I love my panels, they're working out great.

The install went off without a hitch. It took an additional 2 or 3 months for them to get "Permission to Operate" from my utility provider, and that was admittedly Tesla's fault. Simple delay in putting the paperwork together for SoCal Edison--was told that Tesla was slammed, but no other real reason for the delay).

The panels are working great right now, and so far have exceeded their claimed "typical" output. I have a pretty optimal roof position and angle, so that's likely the reason.

The system cost me $16,508.40 for the 8.16kwh system. After 26% federal tax credit, my out the door price is $12,216.21.

I used an average $180 average monthly pre-solar power bill to calculate a break-even of 68 months. That, however, was a conservative estimate. I had over-sized my system thinking that "one day" I would get an electric car. That day came way sooner, so now I am more fully utilizing the power being produced by my system. I don't have a full year's worth of data yet, but I am generating and using far more than $180/mo in power now from my system. At an average savings of $220/mo (again, conservative estimate), my break even period for my system is only 4.6 years.

My system generated an estimated $336 of power in February, and $398 in September (with a low of $200 in December). This is based on time of use generation rates (I pay and get credit for varying amounts during different parts of the day). May is supposed to be my peak output month for my geographic region.

My only regret at this point is not sizing up to a 12kwh system when prices were low. We didn't think we could use that capacity, and any extra capacity is just wasted--but I'm really liking my plug-in electric vehicle, and am contemplating a full electric vehicle next.

quote:

Originally posted by Pyker:
I have toyed with this idea a couple of times. What stops me is: What do they do when you have a foot (or more) of snow on your roof? Are you back to the grid at that point? Winter can last a fair time up here and with the insulation in my house, the snow doesn't melt off any too quick.

Without an attached battery system (I personally do not recommend an attached battery system as there's no economic benefit from it), then you never really leave the grid.

With a grid connected solar system like mine, you feed power back into the grid throughout the day (earning credits) and then use power from the grid at night (accruing charges), and then pay for the difference (net) at the end of a 12 month period. This is called "net metering".

Rather than rely on expensive equipment to ensure that I have battery power providing current current and voltage all the time, I rely on the grid to ensure that I get a nice reliable stream of AC power at whatever current I need.

For your situation, you'd be relying on the grid while your panels are covered in snow. Does that work out for you financially? Can't say for certain, but I would guess no. Panels aren't cheap, and they aren't paying their own way if a) you live at a high latitude that doesn't get a bunch of sun and b) the panels are covered in snow for a couple of months out of the year.

As it is, I'm seeing people spend $30-40k on solar panels with a 17-25 year break even. What is even the point of that besides virtue signaling?

No. Get your break even point under 10 years, the possible benefit of free power for 10-15 years after that, and then sure, it makes financial sense to maybe gamble on solar now.

Does Tesla offer free standing panels or just roof panels?

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:
Does Tesla offer free standing panels or just roof panels?

I've not seen any residential grid-tied system that allowed free standing or even ground mounted solar panels. It had to be on a roof (not even a patio or other structure).

A) I bet there's some concern about grid power swinging around on loose wires, and shock risks for having panels on the ground with exposed wires.

B) It creates an inherent size limitation to prevent people from building out solar farms. Believe it or not, the utilities are actually against residential solar.

If you wanted free standing panels, there are permit-free solar systems available that are not grid tied. Many of them push power into your house using a standard 15/20 amp outlet. They get around all the permiting and grid restrictions by using microinverters and computers to only provide exactly as much power as your house is consuming and never push any excess back into the grid. It serves to offset your daytime power usage, but that's it. No bill rollback, no net metering, etc.

Here's an example (I have no experience with this company):

https://legionsolar.com/getStarter.html

Yeah, I've got a semi-local outfit coming out Friday for a site visit. I'm looking at a ground mounted system as it would be next to impossible to keep the snow off them on the roof. Given the price you got your's for with Tesla, I was just curious if they had a ground system with similar pricing.

I'm not looking for anything huge at this point, mostly just a grid down SHTF scenario to keep the freezers running and run the well pump for a few minutes a day sort of thing. I could do without power for everything else if I had to. But, if I could get a good buy on something bigger I'd certainly entertain it. I'm budgeting somewhere in the $20-30K range.

For a system that is primarily SHTF and NOT for hacking cheap energy bills, I would also look into a plug-and-play modular system Renology, Bluetti or Ecoflow. $10k can get you a very capable and modular system that can be packed up with you if you need, rolled around to different parts of the ranch, replaced or expanded incrementally, supplemented with a gas or propane generator, etc.

Yes there are ground mounted systems. If you have the space that's in full sunlight they'll be the most efficient setup as they can be positioned optimally in relation to the sun.

I have family and friends who sell solar. They have queues of 30+ installs signed and ready to go but solar panels and components are scarce due to chip shortages and import issues. Guys that were making $15-20k a month are now looking for 2nd jobs because they continue to sign up 5-10 new installs a month but 0 are going to the roof right now and they don't get paid until it's installed.

quote:

For your situation, you'd be relying on the grid while your panels are covered in snow. Does that work out for you financially? Can't say for certain, but I would guess no. Panels aren't cheap, and they aren't paying their own way if a) you live at a high latitude that doesn't get a bunch of sun and b) the panels are covered in snow for a couple of months out of the year.

Thank you. We're in snow for at least 4 months of the year, so I can't see the finances working out. I'd have to live here until I'm 120 years old to make that work! I appreciate your answer.

Perhaps a smaller back up system would be more appropriate. I'll have to think on that some more.

These might be an option worth investigating: GAF Solar Shingles.

With the Federal Solar tax credit - does anyone know if the Tax credit is off just W2s, 1099's, Capital Gains? Or all income combined?

quote:

Originally posted by nra-life-member:
With the Federal Solar tax credit - does anyone know if the Tax credit is off just W2s, 1099's, Capital Gains? Or all income combined?

As I understand it, it is all income combined. It may be going away in 2023 though (or significantly reduced). Also, many states offer rebates and/or deductions as well. MT, I believe, is $1000 up front plus a yearly deduction.