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Originally posted by 1967Goat:

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by Rightwire:
Just out of curiosity, are Florida schools Gun Free Zones? Isn't that supposed to be the magic law that prevents school shootings?

Yes, I believe schools are one of the areas prohibited for concealed carry in Florida.

Not sure about other states, but in Colorado you can carry a gun onto school property, just not inside the school. Some of our State Reps are working to change that, but with a Dem House and Governor it fails every year.

In Utah, I can carry into any school without issue, from grade school to the university of Utah. Teachers are also armed if they care to be.

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Originally posted by Rightwire:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
Just out of curiosity, are Florida schools Gun Free Zones? Isn't that supposed to be the magic law that prevents school shootings?

Yes, I believe schools are one of the areas prohibited for concealed carry in Florida.

My point was not related to concealed carry, but that in 1990 there was land mark, common sense, gun control enacted by congress that would forever protect our children and schools from gun violence.

Since the passing of that law shootings in schools have increased every year. The law did nothing to stop the violence.

Common sense gun control law - FAIL

What law was that?

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

In Utah, I can carry into any school without issue, from grade school to the university of Utah. Teachers are also armed if they care to be.

Dear God how do you survive the firearms free for all in a situation like that?!

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Originally posted by JALLEN:

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Originally posted by Rightwire:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

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Originally posted by Rightwire:
Just out of curiosity, are Florida schools Gun Free Zones? Isn't that supposed to be the magic law that prevents school shootings?

Yes, I believe schools are one of the areas prohibited for concealed carry in Florida.

My point was not related to concealed carry, but that in 1990 there was land mark, common sense, gun control enacted by congress that would forever protect our children and schools from gun violence.

Since the passing of that law shootings in schools have increased every year. The law did nothing to stop the violence.

Common sense gun control law - FAIL

What law was that?

I'm not an attorney but I travel a lot and see GUN FREE ZONE signs posted around every school I see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ol_Zones_Act_of_1990

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._Schools_Act_of_1994

From what little research I did you cannot concealed carry or have a firearm in a vehicle in a school zone in Florida. Open carry is banned so you can't subvert the gun free school zone law that way as in other states.

Clearly these Federal and State laws have done nothing to stop shootings in schools. Huge law, everyone 'felt' safer, history has shown it was totally ineffective, and no one mentions it after one of these incidents. That was the point.

Although now I've noticed, just today that there are more calls to end this ineffective legislation and perhaps take schools off the soft target list.

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Originally posted by Rightwire:

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Originally posted by JALLEN:

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Originally posted by Rightwire:

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Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
Just out of curiosity, are Florida schools Gun Free Zones? Isn't that supposed to be the magic law that prevents school shootings?

Yes, I believe schools are one of the areas prohibited for concealed carry in Florida.

My point was not related to concealed carry, but that in 1990 there was land mark, common sense, gun control enacted by congress that would forever protect our children and schools from gun violence.

Since the passing of that law shootings in schools have increased every year. The law did nothing to stop the violence.

Common sense gun control law - FAIL

What law was that?

I'm not an attorney but I travel a lot and see GUN FREE ZONE signs posted around every school I see

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ol_Zones_Act_of_1990

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._Schools_Act_of_1994

From what little research I did you cannot concealed carry or have a firearm in a vehicle in a school zone in Florida. Open carry is banned so you can't subvert the gun free school zone law that way as in other states.

Clearly these Federal and State laws have done nothing to stop shootings in schools. Huge law, everyone 'felt' safer, history has shown it was totally ineffective, and no one mentions it after one of these incidents. That was the point.

Although now I've noticed, just today that there are more calls to end this ineffective legislation and perhaps take schools off the soft target list.

This is the sort of thing I mean when I say "push back".

We need to push harder than those who are quick to give up our rights, give away our money, and give up our liberties "for us".

Push back every-time they start anything and take ground.

Every play. Plan effective strategies and push hard, never let up.

Make it so they never want to show themselves, or open their mouths to such emotional and useless controls.

As the image posted states: I want all of my cake back.

I'm calling them the "do-something" crowd. So many lefties always call for the government to "DO SOMETHING."

On a larger scale, they simply don't understand why the government doing something is often a bad idea. More regulation doesn't bother them in the slightest.

On the smaller scale, they often don't examine the "something" to see if it will actually work and not cause some other problem.

But, do something, by God.

My sons school has an armed SRO, and I was very glad to see it when we moved here. This isn't a bad area, I live in a nice school district, but I like having him there. Not only is he protection, but the kids all love him and he knows them all by name, showing them that police are not the enemy, they are a trusted authority figure. And he wears full uniform, green "tactical" overalls I guess you would call them, has a Glock on his hip, Sheriff jacket on.

He knows damn near every kid in that school by name, and talks to them, gives them advice, etc.

For the life of me I cannot understand why there isn't an armed SRO in every school, every one. For all the stupidity our tax money is spent on, I wouldn't mind covering a 100% SRO program with a millage or something.

Sigmonkey’s post made me recall a conversation amongst coaches the other night related to act vs consequences. It seems relevant to the discussion.

Fundamentally, why do people do things? It is more or less to gain a reward, or avoid a consequence or some combination thereof.

- You eat to gain the reward of no longer being hungry or tasting good food
- You go to work to gain the reward of a pay check
- You don’t drive 50mph in a 25 mph zone to avoid a huge fine
- You use the bathroom to get relief, and avoid wet pants
- You try to do good things in life so that you go to heaven and avoid hell
- You post neat stuff on this forum for the reward of making others laugh or engage in discussion
- You don’t post stupid things to avoid the ban hammer

The issue comes when the person has either no fear of the consequence, is willing to accept the consequence, or sees the consequence as a reward.

- Why do people post stupid stuff? They’ve decided they are done here and want the ban hammer to go out in a blaze of glory
- Why are people habitual offenders? They don’t care about, or accept the consequence of jail
- Why are gang bangers quick to commit crime? Going to jail is a badge of honor
- Why are suicide bombers so willing? The consequence is the reward
- Why do mass shooters do what they do? They know they’re going to/want to die and want to this negating the consequence of being shot by police or tried and sent to jail. OR they are willing to accept a long jail term for the notoriety (speaking to the point of not glorifying them)

This is a breakdown in society that no law can fix as they are meaningless to people in this mindset.

Maybe taking corporal punishment out of schools and away from parents was a bad idea. Canada fixed that after the first school shooting.

How do you fix a society when a segment of it, capable of heinous crimes, no longer has any fear of consequence, punishment, or retribution? How do you fix a generation with a “I really don’t care if I get fired, cut, or disciplined” attitude?

No guns on school property in FL as we know from the news, yesterday I went to pickup my granddaughter from band practice after school, she wanted to be seen getting picked up and riding off on my motorcycle.

Had to make sure that my stored firearm and carry were left at home, don't want to go to jail, and there in lies the problem, even if there was a permit carry near the school, legally you can't enter the property.

There is an exception to the GFZA for licensed CHLs.

It astonishes me how quickly these students can arrange for busses, lists of travelers, printed t-shirts, posters, coffee mugs, etc. it almost seems preplanned.

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Originally posted by JALLEN:
There is an exception to the GFZA for licensed CHLs.

Dependent on the State.

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Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:

For the life of me I cannot understand why there isn't an armed SRO in every school, every one. For all the stupidity our tax money is spent on, I wouldn't mind covering a 100% SRO program with a millage or something.

I bet it is because of a couple liberal attitudes:

They hate and fear guns, and don't believe that ANY person with a gun is a good thing.

They don't want kids to 'get used to' seeing guns. The 'unknown' breeds fear, which is what they want.

They ultimately want to ban all guns everywhere, so even effective measures like this that will make our children safer MUST be opposed.

They want to 'feel' safe, logic be damned. If it makes them feel safer, even if it INCREASES the danger level, they are fine with it.

On a deep philosophical level, to them ALL GUNS are bad, so they cannot conceive how armed security will help them. Thus explains all the 'just ban all guns' nonsense. I think they truly believe that this is possible to do (despite ALL evidence to the contrary) and that it will help. Of course, we know that gun-free zones are counter-productive in the extreme. They don't know, or refuse to believe, this elementary fact of life.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
There is an exception to the GFZA for licensed CHLs.

It astonishes me how quickly these students can arrange for busses, lists of travelers, printed t-shirts, posters, coffee mugs, etc. it almost seems preplanned.

Glee Clubs and the like, being replaced with all manner of "Activism" and "Community Organizing", with playbooks, methods and procedures to "never let a crisis go to waste".

I am not the least bit surprised in the rapidity and scale of all of this, and certainly there are many people of influence that are ever-ready and vigilant to react to such things.

We have to be as quick if not quicker.

One of the things I learned in the military, was to be faster at all this than your enemy, for you might get your aircraft in the air more rapidly than your enemy, but if you come back and he's eating in your chow hall, you lost.

Yeah. "Cover your bases", had a different meaning.

Make no mistake, we are in a "war", and have been for sometime.

The correct answer is not buying more firearms and ammo, but engaging any and every chance you get to take hold and secure what you value in the institutions of this nation, and to take back that which rightfully belongs to "We the People..."

And that is not only those with whom we agree, but for everyone who is an American.

Many of those we are dealing with are imply ignorant or misinformed, and they can be shown the truth and some of them will "swing". Others, even when presented the truth, will still choose to be opposed, and nothing can be done about that.

And yes, I believe that we can win by knowing that it is for the "all" of America.

The other side is happy to cut the baby in half.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
It astonishes me how quickly these students can arrange for busses, lists of travelers, printed t-shirts, posters, coffee mugs, etc. it almost seems preplanned.

I'm sure the AnyTown for gun violence and the Brady Bunch had it set up the day after the shooting.

Buses, hotels, talking points, encouragement, food, you name it, I'm sure they got it.

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It astonishes me how quickly these students can arrange for busses, lists of travelers, printed t-shirts, posters, coffee mugs, etc. it almost seems preplanned.

It is, with every shooting activists are organizing, planning, developing scripts for
the next shooting, all the response is preplanned.

They know there's going to be another, and another, and another, with social media it's easier to coordinate efforts, to disseminate information, fund raise.

My grandfather had an old preserve cellar with HUNDREDS of magazines in his home. He apparently never threw them out, and had decades worth of Field and Stream, Outdoor Life, and many older ones I had never heard of before. There was a story in a really old safari magazine I read about 35 years ago. I don't know if it's true, but it's stuck with me for decades. It almost reads like a parable, but it was presented as a true story. It goes something like this:



In deep dark Africa, villagers were afraid of the dark (and since this is the bush, they had EVERY right and reason to be afraid). Some merchant came along with small battery-powered blue lights. These lights would allow the villagers to see in the dark. They bought them by the truckload, as it made them 'feel' safer. Soon, villagers all over this region carried these blue lights at night.

However,

Hippos (the most dangerous beast in Africa second only to man) HATED the blue lights. When they saw the lights, they would rush over and trample them to pieces (along with, obviously, whoever was carrying the lights). This caused many, many deaths, but the villagers kept carrying the lights, because it made them 'feel' safer (even though it actually increased their personal danger immeasurably).



This is how I see the current 'gun-free zone' nonsense. Ignorant idiots want to 'feel' safe, so they impose bans and 'gun-free zones.' We, of course, realize this makes people in those stupid zones LESS SAFE, but they don't seem to care. Libs seem to base 100% of their lives on their 'feelings,' anyway, so this shouldn't come as a surprise.


Therefore, this is why I believe the libs will NEVER support truly effective security measures. Having armed security in schools will likely INCREASE the safety of students and staff, but libs want to 'feel' safe, so they will continue to support 'gun-free zones' and other liberal nonsense that will ultimately only INCREASE the death tolls. They are incapable of seeing the inherent illogic and counter-productive nature of their stances.

I'll go further....I'll bet they have emergency activism plans, the leftists' versions of emergency plans.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
It astonishes me how quickly these students can arrange for busses, lists of travelers, printed t-shirts, posters, coffee mugs, etc. it almost seems preplanned.

I'm sure the AnyTown for gun violence and the Brady Bunch had it set up the day after the shooting.

Buses, hotels, talking points, encouragement, food, you name it, I'm sure they got it.

quote:

This is how I see the current 'gun-free zone' nonsense. Ignorant idiots want to 'feel' safe, so they impose bans and 'gun-free zones.' We, of course, realize this makes people in those stupid zones LESS SAFE, but they don't seem to care. Libs seem to base 100% of their lives on their 'feelings,' anyway, so this shouldn't come as a surprise.


Therefore, this is why I believe the libs will NEVER support truly effective security measures. Having armed security in schools will likely INCREASE the safety of students and staff, but libs want to 'feel' safe, so they will continue to support 'gun-free zones' and other liberal nonsense that will ultimately only INCREASE the death tolls. They are incapable of seeing the inherent illogic and counter-productive nature of their stances.

And yet it could be part and parcel to the strategy, by keeping specific targets zones free from protection, you increase the potential for these situations, and, since these situations garner massive public empathy as well as become a very strong point for combating the enemy, which is the NRA and gun owners.

Sort of self full filling, since those that seek to gain from the acts in these locations are never under risk for the actions, some risk is acceptable since they hold the high ground of being against gun violence, they can never be accused of perpetuating the situation by creating these zones.

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Originally posted by HRK:
No guns on school property in FL as we know from the news, yesterday I went to pickup my granddaughter from band practice after school, she wanted to be seen getting picked up and riding off on my motorcycle.

Had to make sure that my stored firearm and carry were left at home, don't want to go to jail, and there in lies the problem, even if there was a permit carry near the school, legally you can't enter the property.

I picked my son up from school virtually ever afternoon for upwards of 10 years. During all that time, it would have been a rarity for me not to be armed. I never exited my vehicle onto school property, but I also never worried for a moment whether I had a firearm (or firearms) in my truck. Rules/laws need to make sense or they're worthless. As I discussed with a Florida Senate president many years ago, how can I be expected to legally concealed carry all day, but somehow disarm for the few minutes it takes me to pick up my kid from school.

Florida's carry laws are improving, but they still have some stupid requirements that are all but impossible for a law abiding citizen to abide by.

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
It astonishes me how quickly these students can arrange for busses, lists of travelers, printed t-shirts, posters, coffee mugs, etc. it almost seems preplanned.

Yeah...Isn't that interesting that students who can't get to school on time, or complete a homework assignment by a deadline, can somehow organize all of this movement complete with transportation and accommodations. Kinda makes ya go, hmmmmmmmmmm...