My governor.

From 2006 to 2016 55,855 people in the age group 0-24 committed suicide. (data from the CDC)

Same time period number of people in the same age group killed in school shootings: 216 (I derived that number from searching for news articles)

In 2016 & 2017 the total number of people killed in school shootings was...7

I would argue that most of the school shootings had the objective of suicide by cop.


We have a mental health crisis in our youth. I think a big part of it is the various drugs we give little Johnny so he will sit still in school for 8 hours and not fidget.

We had some terrible abuses of the mental health system back in the day. Now we have almost no way of intervening when issues are detected. I wish I had the answer to this.

Our kids are killing themselves and sometimes taking others with them. It is a terrible thing.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
None of the responses address the total failure of educators, law enforcement, mental health, and social services at the federal, state, and local level to intervene in this young mass murderer's life. None of these people face real accountability for failing to do their Goddamned jobs.

Were guns not the focus, the police and school officials would be facing hard questions. The police had many notices that Cruz was a danger. Why didn't they do something? The school expelled him but didn't do anything else. Cruz was seen but allowed to walk into an open school. Last, Cruz went to the second floor and tried to shoot the fleeing students. He was stopped by the hurricane proof glass. Why wasn't the same glass placed in the doors and the interior windows of the classrooms.

The video that JLJones posted, I've been saying the same thing for about 5 years almost verbatim.

Watch old TV shows and movies prior to 1990. The bad guy got shot, he keeled over and he died. If there was a fight, lots of punches and the loser usually had a trickle of blood out of his nose or lip. Today when the bad guy gets shot blood blows out his chest his back, and half of his head disappears. If there is a fight, the loser gets arms, legs graphically broken, blood everywhere.

When I was a kid and played video games you blasted aliens and monsters. If you blasted people they just folded and went down. Now its more graphic than the movies and you're blasting people you know.

There was a big rule in the house growing up "You don't do what you see on TV" If I got caught acting stuff out from TV, I got it. I learned. TV is TV, not real life.

Somewhere in the foolish pursuit of realism, we lost what TV, Movies, and Games were supposed to be about. Entertaining us, not to mimic real life, most of which is overly graphic and wrong anyway

quote:

Were guns not the focus, the police and school officials would be facing hard questions.

Better and more concise than I could have said it.

quote:

Originally posted by mark_a:
From 2006 to 2016 55,855 people in the age group 0-24 committed suicide. (data from the CDC)

Same time period number of people in the same age group killed in school shootings: 216 (I derived that number from searching for news articles)

In 2016 & 2017 the total number of people killed in school shootings was...7

I would argue that most of the school shootings had the objective of suicide by cop.


We have a mental health crisis in our youth. I think a big part of it is the various drugs we give little Johnny so he will sit still in school for 8 hours and not fidget.

We had some terrible abuses of the mental health system back in the day. Now we have almost no way of intervening when issues are detected. I wish I had the answer to this.

Our kids are killing themselves and sometimes taking others with them. It is a terrible thing.

Mark

Much logic and truth in what you said and compiling those numbers. Adding in , a large percent of the youth now have social media ( along with many adults) screwing up their thinking.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:


My governor.

Lucky...

^^Yep. The exact opposite of our Governor in Washington State. Inslee and our Ag HATE semi-automatic rifles. Now they'll use this shooting as another prime reason to ban ALL "black rifles"
They don't believe in reason. Only justification. We should see some announcemt sometime this year. A progressive approach for our safety. Hmmmm.

Rightwire - +1 - Duke Nukem and the likes.

The rich get richer, the poor get the picture.
(Ref: Midnight Oil - Read About It; 1982).

There was the expected bat shit crazy here in Aus, with all the expected erroneous, inaccurate reporting and commentary of this tragic event.

And the misquoted social media discussion.

I tuned out, just more illogical thinking.

Indeed Para, predictable insanity.

quote:

Forget that the problem is unfixable. We live in a sick society.

This times 1k. It also speaks to the sickness and/or insanity of a growing segment of US society to think passing another law or attempting to remove guns from the equation is a panacea for this issue. Unfortunately this leaves me terribly disappointed that this has likely become the new normal in this country.

Thank you, Para, for keeping SIGforum a sane place.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
For God's sake, they make these murderers famous. It's lurid and it's wrong, flat-out wrong. It's not about the "publics right to know". What they do with these events is obscene and it is wrong.

I think it's time for public outcry and pressure from politcians to force news talking heads to not mention these scumbags by name.
The FBI is able to censor the dollar amounts taken from bank robberies due to the .gov being very intertwined with the banking system and the news stations buying into it.

Why is the amount of cash taken held secret but the "news" outlets turn every murderer into a celebrity?
It's beyond disgusting.

I finally got sick of seeing my extended family members post the same anti-gun, anti-NRA, etc., memes.

So I wrote this for them. I fudged a little on the 9 deaths stat but that is distracted driving deaths every day. And I would bet a paycheck that is is mostly due to people using phones while driving.

"I am SICK AND TIRED of reading about more deaths everyday because of these things.

When I was a kid, nobody had these things. Yet, most Americans insist on owning and using them. WE HAVE NO control if their owners use them responsibly or not. We have absolutely never needed these things before and we can get by without them. Some idiots use them as some sort of fashion statement to compensate their ‘limp’ self-image. There are even conventions to show them off, in spite of the fact that they know the damage they can cause.

"I need it" "It's my right" "It is the user's fault"

Yet, the manufacturers donate millions of dollars to politicians each year, so Congress won’t do a damn thing to stop them.

It is estimated that every day in America, 9 people are killed and over 1000 injured just in accidents and millions of dollars in damage with these ‘devices’ that people demand is their ‘right’. This doesn’t even begin to touch the emotional and psychological impact it has on the loved ones of those who are killed or injured.

Even with common sense laws against their use, people continue to cause horrific damage with them.

There is nothing in the Constitution about these damn devices and the Founding Fathers could never have envisioned these things.

Until these things came along, deaths in this category in the US were decreasing, but since their introduction, every year more people die or are injured because of their reckless use.

We keep hearing about the toll they take, keep seeing them glorified in tv shows and movies, yet the do-nothing politicians only pay lip-service to the idea of passing common-sense laws.

We see the deaths and horrific injuries these things cause every day in the news.
We them in the hands of children and in schools.
We see them used on tv and movies.
We see that their manufactures are just in it for the money.
We can’t wait for the politicians or their corporate donors to do something.

We have to do something now.
Please join me in calling for a ban….

on Smartphones

These things are ruining lives, are dangerous when used improperly and are just goddamned rude. Look up from the screen and interact with real people and the real world.

PAY ATTENTION"

I am really getting tired of the ”It’s time to put politics aside and do X, Y, Z to stop this violence” where “X, Y, Z” all just happen to be politically motivated goals that not surprisingly increase the infringements on the Second Amendment. Along with the incessant cries to enact “common sense”, “reasonable”, and “rational” laws (as defined by the left).

The inferrence is that anyone who disagrees is playing politics, is unreasonable, irrational, and devoid of common sense. It is just comical to me how the left claims to put politics aside and then push an agenda that is straight off their platform.



I came across this earlier today and while not my words, it captures my thoughts precisely...

https://news.unclesamsmisguide...se-lectured-anymore/

“The recent Florida shooting has once again ignited the gun control debate. In the aftermath it didn’t take long for the left to start villainizing the National Rifle Association (NRA), as if NRA members had anything to do with this or any other massacre of innocents. The Second Amendment existed long before the NRA was ever founded (as did crime) and is a sacred right enumerated in our Bill of Rights.

The NRA and its millions of responsible, upstanding and law-abiding members stand for the protection of those rights, safe and responsible firearm ownership, education, training and are as outraged as any other citizen when those rights are abused. But the time has come where as NRA members, we aren’t going to listen to the vitriol directed at us anymore.

I for one refuse to be lectured on my rights any longer, especially from the degenerate left. I refuse to be lectured by Millennials and children who don’t respect their parents, adults and seniors. Who bully and torment their classmates into depression, rage and suicide. It isn’t NRA members shooting up these schools. It’s your own CLASSMATES.

I refuse to be lectured by pacifists who refuse to take responsibility for their own security, preferring to allow others to do the heavy lifting and force others into making moral choices they don’t have the courage to. I refuse to be lectured by a medical community that causes an opioid epidemic that kills thousands and walks away Scott-free. The same medical community that creates psychopaths and killers by pumping psychotropic drugs into kids.

I refuse to be lectured by social justice warriors who say a man wearing high heels, a wig, lipstick and a skirt is entirely “normal” at the same time crying about mental health. The same SJW’s who think a man using the same bathroom as a ten-year girl is entirely ok yet somehow want to institute mental health background checks for those they differ with politically.

I refuse to be lectured by judges and lawyers who conspire to plead out criminal gun cases and let criminals go free only to return to our communities to wreak more havoc. I refuse to be lectured by police chiefs who want me disarmed in the face of riots and rampant crime they have no answers to. The same police that can’t prevent a massacre when WARNED IN ADVANCE.

I refuse to be lectured by school teachers who have failed in their basic obligations to educate children on the horrors of Socialism, Communism, Fascism and teach basic history, instead of indoctrinating them into a cult of social justice. I refuse to be lectured by school administrators who refuse to institute “common sense” security measures at our nation’s schools.

I refuse to be lectured by politicians who talk about innocents being gunned down, yet support abortion on demand, the wholesale slaughter of innocents. The same politicians who allow illegal aliens killers, drug dealers and human traffickers to come into our country with impunity.

I refuse to be lectured by race baiters who use racial politics to further division and hatred while ignoring the carnage of drugs and guns in minority neighborhoods. I refuse to be lectured by a sick society that brought us the “knock-out game.”

I refuse to be lectured by Europeans who are overrun by terrorists and would have the same for us. I refuse to be lectured by domestic terrorists like BLM and ANTIFA on the radical left. Your violence is what we need protection from.

I refuse to be lectured by those shouting “fuck the police” yet at the first sign of trouble call 9-11.

I refuse to be lectured by those who know nothing about firearms and have the audacity to espouse what kind of firearm I do or don’t “need.” I’ll decide the issue.

I refuse to be lectured by those who insult our President but don’t understand the fundamental differences between the three branches of government.

I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to be lectured by the MSM who have done more to generate hate, hostility, disinformation and civil unrest than the NRA ever could. So, march and chant, riot and burn all you want, SJWs and liberals. I’ll keep my guns where they always are. Whenever you feel froggy…”

In a debate I had I explained that for some reason we go after the tool (guns) where with every other risk we go after the behavior, such as the person who drives under the influence instead of cars.

The looney I was trying to “fix” was quick to point out that we have speed limits, child seat requirements, licensing, and testing, etc. I acknowledged that and pointed out that those were laws and rules applied to the PERSON and we also had background checks and laws about killing people the problem is some people choose to break the laws.

I then asked what she thought about if as a result of automobile deaths and DUI problem every car was mechanically restricted to 15mph (does anyone really “NEED” to go faster than that?), had factory installed child seats that could not be removed, and a factory installed ignition interlock that required a breath test for every start.

As expected, clueless and unable to see that punishing everyone who uses a product becomes a small subset of society misuses it is a ridiculous response.

quote:

Originally posted by Echtermetzger:
I finally got sick of seeing my extended family members post the same anti-gun, anti-NRA, etc., memes....

Stolen...

I'm hearing more call to raise the age to buy a rifle from 18 to 21. Someone will say why stop there then. 21 to vote, get married, join the military, drivers license. The list can go on and on.

quote:

Originally posted by Ragnar:
I'm hearing more call to raise the age to buy a rifle from 18 to 21. Someone will say why stop there then. 21 to vote, get married, join the military, drivers license. The list can go on and on.

Those same people are calling to LOWER the voting age to 16...

quote:

Originally posted by 911Boss:

quote:

Originally posted by Ragnar:
I'm hearing more call to raise the age to buy a rifle from 18 to 21. Someone will say why stop there then. 21 to vote, get married, join the military, drivers license. The list can go on and on.

Those same people are calling to LOWER the voting age to 16...

Wait. These students are so mature, clear-thinking, and brilliant they should be able to vote at 16. But they're also so unstable they should not be able to buy a firearm until they're 21??

I don't get it. Well, yes I do.

quote:

Wait. These students are so mature, clear-thinking, and brilliant they should be able to vote at 16. But they're also so unstable they should not be able to buy a firearm until they're 21??

I don't get it. Well, yes I do.

Don't forget, these are the same students that are eating Tide pods.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
The disgusting new twist in this shooting is that the libs are now exploiting the students and bringing them into the cause. CNN is showing students demanding gun control using talking points coincidentally tweeted out by ..wait for it...CNN.

They don't have new ideas or any particular legislation that would effectively prevent these kinds of shootings. They just want to "do something."

Maybe it happened before, but I don't remember the Dems exploiting kids for political purposes in previous school shootings. I find it extremely distasteful.

Not just used by Dems, seems to be a complete set up...

EXPOSED: School Shooting Survivor Turned Activist David Hogg’s Father in FBI, Appears To Have Been Coached On Anti-Trump Lines

In less than a week since they survived a mass murdering gunman attack on their school, two student who quickly became media stars of the Parkland, Florida school shootings are now media obsessed to the point they say they are snubbing an invitation to meet with President Donald Trump this Wednesday in favor of appearing on a televised town hall with CNN’s Jake Tapper. […]

One student, in particular, David Hogg has been astonishingly articulate and highly skilled at propagating a new anti-Conservative/anti-Trump narrative behind the recent school shooting. Few have seen this type of rapid media play before, and when they have it has come from well-trained political operatives and MSM commentators.

Immediately, these students-turned-activists threw up some red flags.

In what was initially as an incredibly odd move for a high school student, Hogg’s vehemently defended the FBI and placed the blame squarely on the President’s shoulders…. before admitting that his father was in the FBI.

“I think it’s disgusting, personally. My father’s a retired FBI agent and the FBI are some of the hardest working individuals I have ever seen in my life,” proclaimed David Hogg to CNN.

“It’s wrong that the president is blaming them for this.”

Continuing, Hogg demonstrated his complete lack of American civics knowledge. A clueless Hogg appeared unaware of the fact that the President is not ‘in control’ of each department and branch of government, but must work and negotiate with them. Regardless, Hogg pushed the notion that Trump is in charge of the FBI.

“He can’t put that off on them. He is in charge of them and these people, what they love to do is push this off on bureaucracy and say it’s not them,” he said. “He is in charge of the FBI … the executive branch is supposed to enforce laws and as such, President Trump is in charge of that and the FBI.”

Anyone who has been following the news could tell you that many in the FBI have been working against the president from the start, with the most notable case involving collusion between the FBI, Obama Administration, and the Clinton campaign’s to push the false ‘verification’ of the junk Steele Dossier. It has also been widely reported that the FBI received tips well in advance of the Flordia school shooting and decided, for whatever reason, not to act.

The fault for this tragedy lies squarely on the shoulder’s of the FBI, who could have prevented this back in January.

Adding to the credibility of Hogg, in a recently uncovered early cut from one of his interviews it appears he was heavily coached on lines and is merely reciting a script. Frequently seen in the footage mouthing the lines he should be reciting. Hogg becomes flustered multiple times, is seen apologizing, and asking for re-takes.

Why would the child of an FBI agent be used as a pawn for anti-Trump rhetoric and anti-gun legislation? Because the FBI is only looking to curb YOUR Constitutional rights and INCREASE their power. We’ve seen similar moves by them many times over. This is just another disgusting example of it.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.co...i-trump-lines-video/