quote:

Originally posted by StorminNormin:

quote:

Originally posted by C Swimm:
Any Advice before I start gathering supplies and equipment?

It looks like you have researched it well and are doing pretty good. I would recommend getting a Little Crow WFT to trim brass cases; it is the best.

I would also suggest a Sheridan Case Guage.

I have a Dillon RT1200 so I will be getting the whidden trim die eventually. For now I will make due with my Forster trimmer with the 30 cal 3 way cutter head for final trimming.

Case gauge is a must too for setting up the sizing die. Also plan on getting a Lee Factory Crimp die when I get the 650 up and running for this caliber. Will probably use my Redding Big Boss single stage for the initial test loads. Also pick up components as I find them available. I'm good on primers already though.

I plan on doing this in 3 steps.

Step one. Get the upper ready to shoot. Got an Aimpoint Pro on the way and need to pick up some back up sights. Then this step will be complete if I can find some descent priced ammo locally.

Step two. Get set up to load my own ammo. First the basics, then the extras to be able to produce in greater volume.

Step three. Make a dedicated lower so this will be its own complete rifle. Long term goal to be an SBR.

quote:

Originally posted by C Swimm:
Well sure enough the local shop had 3 1# bottles of AA1680 on the shelf. It was $26.95 so I got one to try out. I would have gotten all 3 but I am a little thin on cash until Wednesday.

To me, AA1680 has proven to be the best powder for subsonic loading.

quote:

Originally posted by C Swimm:
They also had several boxes of Remington UMC in 300 Blackout 115gr but at $38 per 20 round box, they can keep them.

The way things are today, buying loaded 300BLK ammo is not cost effective; it used to be. Reloading is the only way to go and buying 300BLK brass is best for getting started. Remington primed 300BLK brass is great when you can find it. I use that for defensive loads I make and use converted brass for plinking.

quote:

Originally posted by C Swimm:
Hope the other places still have the dies, bullets, and everything else I wanted in stock when I get paid. Usually by the time I get the money the thing i had in my wish list are out of stock.

I hear you on this. I was on so many notify lists while getting started and things always became available all at once and when I didn't have the funds so it racked up my credit card bill, which I did not like but I felt it necessary.

Also as you said in your next post, to me the Lee FCD is a must. I put light 1/2 turn on most supersonic loads and a 3/4 medium crimp on subsonic loads.

Found a box of Hornady 208gr Subsonic 300 Whisper ammo at the LGS for $25 today. I got it so I would have something to test fire the gun with until I can get some ammo made for it. I found an article that said the ammo is pretty much interchangeable between 300 Whisper and 300 Blackout, and that Hornady says their 300 Whisper ammo is actually made to 300 Blackout SAMMI specs. I guess the only actual difference is that the 300 Blackout chamber spec calls for a longer throat.


I just don't want to shoot it without my can though.

I noticed that most of the powders recommended for 300 blackout say they are typically used in large volume magnum handgun loads and low volume rifle loads.

I have a bunch of AA#9 and it is known as a magnum pistol powder. Would it also b suitable for use in 300 blackout? Any load data for it in 300BLK? Any reason it wouldn't be a good choice?

quote:

Originally posted by C Swimm:
I found an article that said the ammo is pretty much interchangeable between 300 Whisper and 300 Blackout, and that Hornady says their 300 Whisper ammo is actually made to 300 Blackout SAMMI specs.

I personally have never shot 300 Whisper ammo through my 300BLK. From what I have read is that the Whisper/Blackout is similar to 2.23/5.56 situation in that you can shoot Whisper through a Blackout rifle but not the other way around.

I also have read the same as you that Hornady 300 Whisper is loaded to Blackout specs.

quote:

Originally posted by C Swimm:
I have a bunch of AA#9 and it is known as a magnum pistol powder. Would it also b suitable for use in 300 blackout? Any load data for it in 300BLK? Any reason it wouldn't be a good choice?

I have not seen any published load data on it; even Accurate's powder load data does not list AA#9 for the 300BLK. I have seen over on the 300BLK Forum that there are some people that have used it with mixed results.

I have been sticking with published bullet/powder combinations, but then again I am newer to reloading so I am not as experienced as many others.

Figured this thread is where this question belongs..

For those not following the rifle section, I'm investigating parts to build a 300 blackout upper.

Because of that, and because I'm a reloader, I've obviously been researching reloading for 300 blackout. The actual reloading won't be an issue for me - case, powder, primer, projectile - same as all the other calibers I've loaded already.

My questions revolve around the brass itself. I've seen many many tutorials on how to create 300 blackout brass from 5.56/.223 brass, and it's very straightforward. I totally get it.

HOWEVER - I've been looking around online to see what this brass sells for. It seems most guys are asking ~$300/1000 pieces formed from LC. I can buy NEW manufacture Remington for ~$260/1000 pieces. Now, now, I understand the difference between LC and Remington, let's not have that discussion. BUT - my question is this:

All the places that sell "created" brass from some other parent headstand .223/5.56 case - they all list their process. "Tumble, form, chop, trim, chamfer, debur, anneal". That's the basic formula, sometimes in different orders, and with varying numbers of trips to the tumbler or washed in soap and water or whatever. WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LIST NECK TURNING/REAMING?

Is this not being done? In my reading, including stuff on Redding's site (among others), all the major die manufacturers are strongly urging neck turning/reaming since the new neck is being formed from the body of the parent case, and the body is thicker than the neck, thus possibly resulting in some overpressure (when chambered the thicker neck would hold the bullet tighter). This makes complete sense to me. But, if all these places are "listing all their steps", why are they not listing that step? For those of you that form your own cases, do you do this? Are all the die manufacturers being over-cautious?

Just wanting to see how big a headache this will get to be. This one step will probably determine what direction I decide to go (form my own/buy LC already done/buy new manufacture).

Thanks guys!

Today's results with the 300 whisper ammo was good. All rounds cycled the action and locked the bolt back on last round.

The main goal of today's shoot was to function test the gun. Accuracy was very good for me at 50 yards with the MBUS flip up sights. Should be even better when the Aimpoint Pro arrives tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
WHY DOESN'T ANYONE LIST NECK TURNING/REAMING?

Is this not being done?

I anneal my 300BLK brass that is converted from 5.56 for the reason that the new neck of the 300BLK is from the body of the 5.56.

I just checked my LC brass that I converted from 5.56 to 300BLK and the case wall at the neck is the same thickness as some once fired Remington factory 300BLK brass; both are .0115. When I size the converted brass for the first time I strike it twice to ensure it is the proper size and I am not sure if this helps or if the case wall thickness just happens to still be the same size at that area.

I have not heard of anyone turning/reaming converted brass for 300BLK until you mentioned it. It makes total sense, but I don't think it is needed.

I picked up various bullets and powders to try today.

Win 296
125gr SMKs
150gr Hornady
165gr Hornady

Tomorrow I'm going to pick up some Lil Gun.

Stocking up in anticipation of getting the rifle finished.

I have 500 125gr SMKs on order, and I have some various 150 and 165gr Hornadys here.

I'm more curious about the subsonic loads though.. What are you guys using for those? I'm interested in both a target bullet, and a hunting bullet. I'm guessing for target, a 220 SMK will work pretty well. But what about a hunting bullet?

What are you guys using?

The two most popular for subsonic loads are the 220gr SMK and the 208gr Hornady.

Using it for hunting is where you run into a few issues.

You don't get the expansion in the HPBT's because you don't have the velocity.

I know Mike did some phonebook tests and the results bore that out. Still a big bullet, just not the level of damage done at higher velocity.

Is there a bullet out there that is designed for subsonic expansion?

ETA: What about the 148gr Controlled Fracturing bullet from Lehigh Bullets? They recommend inserting a .17 cal bullet into the cavity for improved terminal performance. They sure are a bit spendy at $68/50, but for strictly hunting use, I think I might be ok with that...

Has anyone tried these?

The only subsonics I have reloaded is Sierra 220gr OTM and the Hornady 208gr A-Max. I still have not gotten a chance to do a wet phone book test or ballistic gel test but I did shoot a large dead semi-rotted log with both. The 220gr went straight through it and kept on going. The 208gr expanded and separated from the bullet jacket; the jacket stayed in the log and the expanded bullet exited. I would not consider this a valid test.

I would think you would need to find a bullet between 150gr to 200gr to have a chance at getting expansion and staying subsonic, but I personally do not know of a proven bullet yet.

This Lehigh Defense 194gr Bullet claims to expand at subsonic velocity in 300BLK.

My brother has told me of a friend that hunts dear with 200+gr 300BLK ammo and even though it does not expand and just plows right through the deer that the deer drops in its track. I wasn't there so I can't vouch for that claim.

Biggest thing for me with trying to hunt with subsonic 300BLK is your limit in range. 100 yards would be pushing it to me and even at that distance you are dealing with around an 11" bullet drop.

Supersonic through a suppressor is still pretty darn quiet; although you will hear the report of the bullet.

I understand about drop, and I'm sure I'll understand more once I start shooting it, but.. From what I have seen on paper, a 220 shot subsonic still delivers 500 lb/ft of energy at 300 yards. That should be plenty of knockdown power for up to deer-sized targets at 300 yards.

As for dropping them where they stand, again, it's all about shot placement. I've seen it happen. It's rare, but it does.

I saw that 194gr expanding bullet, but they are sold out. I was also considering the 174? 147? Gr frac bullet. That seems impressive, and should easily do enough damage to drop a deer quickly.

In any event, the suppressed hunting discussion is largely academic at this point, I haven't even done paperwork yet, so it'll have to wait until next season at a minimum.

I read through all 11 pages and didn't see the answer to my question, but I apologize if it's already been answered... What dies do you recommend? Are the Hornady's any good? I normally go with Dillon, but don't think they have them. I reload on a Dillon 550. I currently have 1000 pieces of processed brass that has already been resized and trimmed, so I really won't need the resizing die for a little while and will probably end up getting one for my RT1200. Can anyone recommend one for that... either the Whidden or the one from Brad's Warehouse? I do have a Lee FCD already too.

What about the Sheridan gauge? Can I not just use my upper to test them out? I have some gauges for my other calibers and usually just use the barrels to test them. How does it compare to the Whidden one?

I have brass, primers (CCI400), some powder (Lil' Gun and 110, still looking for 1680), and a few bullets (100 125gr SST's). Anyone try using the M80 (147gr) pulled bullets?

Thanks for the input

Yeah, I'm a big fan of dillon pistol dies, but I use different stuff for rifle. Sizing dies depend on caliber/application, but I really like the forster ultra micrometer seater dies. dillon doesn't make 300 blackout dies yet. I bought a forster ultra 2-die set for $97 from midway for blackout. If I were you, I'd still run the brass through a sizing die prior to loading. Weird thing happen in shipping...

You'll also need a powder funnel, and for a 550 you need the "AK" funnel. Shell plate and locator buttons are the same as 223.

The sheridan gage looks cool, but I just ordered an le Wilson, also from midway, along with the Lee Fcd. I'm not a fan of using my chamber to check, with the exception of bolt guns. For my auto-loading guns (including pistols) I like the gages so I know it'll fit any gun chambered for that cartridge.

Ps - you should consider this post as informational only since my rifle isn't built yet and I haven't loaded a single round of blackout yet.

quote:

Originally posted by argolfer:
I read through all 11 pages and didn't see the answer to my question, but I apologize if it's already been answered... What dies do you recommend? Are the Hornady's any good? I normally go with Dillon, but don't think they have them. I reload on a Dillon 550. I currently have 1000 pieces of processed brass that has already been resized and trimmed, so I really won't need the resizing die for a little while and will probably end up getting one for my RT1200. Can anyone recommend one for that... either the Whidden or the one from Brad's Warehouse? I do have a Lee FCD already too.

What about the Sheridan gauge? Can I not just use my upper to test them out? I have some gauges for my other calibers and usually just use the barrels to test them. How does it compare to the Whidden one?

I have brass, primers (CCI400), some powder (Lil' Gun and 110, still looking for 1680), and a few bullets (100 125gr SST's). Anyone try using the M80 (147gr) pulled bullets?

Thanks for the input

I used the Redding 300BLK die set for my Dillon RL550; that is what Dillon will sell you if you order a 300BLK die set from them. Although I sure wouldn't mind having a micrometer set.

I ordered re-sized brass when I first got started and found it to be out of spec so I would also recommend to still size the brass.

I have both the LE Wilson and the Sheridan Case Gauge. I use both of them; the Sheridan case gauge is just a little more precise and some rounds that pass a Wilson gauge will fail in a Sheridan gauge but for my rifle even rounds that do not fit perfect in the Sheridan case gauge function just fine in my rifle.

I have not loaded any pulled bullets yet myself.

Stormin - no worries about those redding, they are fine dies! I use a redding sizing die for my precision bolt gun loads. I would have bought a separate redding sizer & forster seater for 300, but with needing bullets and powder and ordering rifle parts, cash is a touch tight right now, so I just opted for the forster 2-die set instead, since the dealer is what's really important to me. Be warned, once you get one, you'll want one for all your rifle calibers....

Sorry I missed the question about the m80 ball pull downs. In response to this, none, repeat, NONE of my rifles will ever see these bullets. Evar! The reason is they all have bi-metal jackets. If you aren't sure what that means, Google for the ar bullet torture test and read the reviews. The short version is that they eat up barrels two to three times as fast as regular bullets. Not to mention they aren't as accurate, and depending how they are pulled they can be a Pita to seat due to differences in length.

I have noticed the Sierra 125gr and 220gr to also vary a good bit in size and it is frustrating. I usually have to end up measuring a bunch of them to find the average length in the box and set my seating die to seat the proper OAL for the average size.