quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
I've been hoping for them to continue the REAL Star Trek story onward

Check this out...
https://startrekcontinues.com/

This series blows. The ship resembles a nacho Dorito

quote:

Originally posted by CQB60:
This series blows. The ship resembles a nacho Dorito

You've seen the new Picard series? Impressive, since it was just announced and hasn't even entered production yet.

No No. 1?

Yep, I deserved that comment No, Rogue. My clairvoyance only goes so far. I was referring to the fifteen minutes of ST-Discovery, the series with the USS Nacho libre. Hopefully they don’t political correct this new series...

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by CQB60:
This series blows. The ship resembles a nacho Dorito

You've seen the new Picard series? Impressive, since it was just announced and hasn't even entered production yet.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by ScreamingCockatoo:
The one where they got the cryogenically preserved people from a capsule really turned me off.
They whole, no want for wealth or need for money.

Bullshit. People do manual labor for FREE?

That's one of the great unresolved contradictions in the Star Trek universe.

The shows reference Roddenberry's "puppies and rainbows and no desire for payment" ideals, while at the same time making references to Starfleet personnel receiving compensation in the form of things like transporter credits, replicator credits, holodeck credits, etc. And it's clearly shown that Starfleet members receive some sort of payment, even if it's just to allow them to deal with traders and merchants outside of Starfleet, such as all the Starfleet personnel gambling and buying drinks at Quark's bar on DS9, going on vacations to alien resort worlds, etc.

What’s the point of having gold when you can create all the gold you want with a replicator?

DS9 did (kind of) establish Latinum (sp?) as a form of universal currency. But in a universe with the technology to provide anything and everything anyone could ever want at almost anytime they want it, money/currency loses just about all of it’s importance.

That was the real quandary Roddenberry found himself in so he dealt with it by not dealing with it. It’s kind of ironic actually as the Federation was the analog of the United States, with enlightened leadership, free markets, capitalism etc. Even the name of the USS Enterprise was a deliberate play on this. (The ship was originally named Lexington in early drafts).

It’s actually an interesting economic question-what happens when technology can provide everything we could ever want for little, if any, cost? We are seeing the very early stages of this in a number of industries such as delivery services (drones) or transport services (automated/self driving cars).

That's specifically why they use Latinum; it can't be replicated. In addition to Latinum, there are certain other compounds that are too complex at the quantum level for replication, including Dilithium (the rare crystals used to power warp drives).


Besides, large-scale replication requires massive amounts of energy and/or raw materials. That's why it's used for limited quantities of smaller items like individual meals, parts, and tools, not buildings/starships/etc.

They're not just creating stuff out of nothing... First Law of Thermodynamics: Mass/energy cannot be created or destroyed, just transformed.

So there's still limits to what can be replicated due to material and energy availability. They cannot just use magic replicators to provide everything to everyone at every time, straight out of thin air at no cost. Hence the concept of "replicator credits" as a means of rationing limited energy/raw materials, and effectively as pay/currency.


(In addition, as mentioned several times in various shows, replicators can't quite get certain things right. For example, food that is replicated just isn't quite as good as food that's grown naturally and prepared by hand. So even if you had the ability to replicate something, you might choose to pay for the better quality "real thing".)

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
That's specifically why they use Latinum... It can't be replicated. In addition to Latinum, there are certain other compounds that are too complex at the quantum level for replication, including as dilithium (the rare crystals used to power warp drives).

Besides, large-scale replication requires massive amounts of energy and/or raw materials. That's why it's generally used for smaller items like individual meals and parts, not buildings/starships/etc.

They're not just creating stuff out of nothing. Mass/energy cannot be created or destroyed, just transformed.

So there's still limits to what can be replicated due to material and energy availability. They cannot just use magic replicators to provide everything to everyyone at every time, straight out of thin air at no cost. Hence the concept of "replicator credits" as a means of rationing limited energy/raw materials, and effectively as pay/currency.

You know this and explain it because you are a nerd...

I knew everything you explained and enjoyed reading it anyways because I’m also a nerd...

The basic quandary (for Roddenberry/Trek) still exists though: what value does gold have when you can make all the gold you want.

Power/energy is a non issue: advanced fusion reactors, DiLithium energy production, etc essentially creates unlimited energy for fractions of a given cost so low as to be impossible to define or calculate. Think of a fraction of a penny for every million, or billion, dollars.

Raw materials are also a non-issue: take a handful of raw materials like nickel, iron, silica etc (you know...dirt) throw it in your energy efficient, high tech, molecular/quantum re-organizer (replicator) and out comes a gold bar, or whatever you want.

Not sure how an economy functions whe the law of scarcity is removed from the equation.

all i know is i really liked yeoman and my wife said she had a crush on CK.

the original series was cool and pretty futuristic looking back.

some of you guys take shit to seriously at times.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by ScreamingCockatoo:
The one where they got the cryogenically preserved people from a capsule really turned me off.
They whole, no want for wealth or need for money.

Bullshit. People do manual labor for FREE?

That's one of the great unresolved contradictions in the Star Trek universe.

The shows reference Roddenberry's "puppies and rainbows and no desire for payment" ideals, while at the same time making references to Starfleet personnel receiving compensation in the form of things like transporter credits, replicator credits, holodeck credits, etc. And it's clearly shown that Starfleet members receive some sort of payment, even if it's just to allow them to deal with traders and merchants outside of Starfleet, such as all the Starfleet personnel gambling and buying drinks at Quark's bar on DS9, going on vacations to alien resort worlds, etc.

"...credits fer nuthin' green chicks fer free..."

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:

some of you guys take shit to seriously at times.

It's what we do. . .

It's not like we are the only sci-fi nerds on the internet to get WAY too bent out of shape and/or argue endlessly over a trivial issue.


For me, the whole 'don't get paid' thing is Roddenberry's utopian crack dream. He had these altruistic ideas about the future, and about people bettering themselves and putting such self-centered things like accruing wealth and influence behind us. It just didn't work for me. We wouldn't be quite human if we didn't get paid or care about material things.

IMO, The Next Generation kinda sucked until Roddenberry died. After that (starting around Season 3), the show got better and better until it really hit its stride in Seasons 4-5 and onward, and produced excellent shows (some of which still sucked, of course (there is a reason there is a compliment such as "it was a good Troi episode) ).

Roddenberry's TNG episodes lacked drama. Enemy ship shows up, fires on Big E, shields to 30%, Troi senses danger, Wesley is annoying, Worf's honor is offended, Geordi runs a level 5 diagnostic, Picards talks to them, roll credits. Afterwards, they introduced more drama and tension, and the show got MUCH better. As one key example, Roddenberry would NEVER had a character like Ensign Ro Laren. She was the only main character that wasn't "top in her class at the Academy" (she came to the Enterprise as part of a deal to get out of prison). She didn't play poker with the main cast. She didn't WANT to get along. She was purposefully brash and abrasive. In other words, she brought drama with her. I LOVED her character.

As for this new show, I don't care about the 'sjw' stuff people seem to be afraid of. Trek ALWAYS hit on social issues (Spock was the 'outsider' commenting on silly outdated human issues like racism, greed, etc in the Original Series). Data was this in TNG; commenting on 20th century issues like drug addiction. Trek had the first inter-racial kiss, the first lesbian kiss, etc etc etc. While I don't necessarily LIKE most of the virtue signaling, anybody who knows the show should realize that it's always been part of Trek. We'll just have to see if they go full retard on it in this new show or not. . .

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
IMO, The Next Generation kinda sucked until Roddenberry died. After that (starting around Season 3), the show got better and better until it really hit its stride in Seasons 4-5 and onward

Agreed.

Roddenberry, in many ways, was holding the Star Trek shows back.

Star Trek didn't hit its "golden era" until after his passing.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Might be the greatest thing since sliced bread but I'll never know - not paying for broadcast TV for a single show, when I already pay for CBS via cable.

I'm with you!

At the same time, the rebooted movie franchise may be dying.

Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth 'Star Trek 4' Future In Doubt as Talks Fall Through

I really dislike the new Captain Kirk anyway but I don't see how they can continue the franchise without him and I don't think they can recast him.

They can replace him with William Shatner.

I actually watched that earlier today. It actually came out the day before the news broke about Chris Pine walking away from the 4th new timeline movie. They want to throw away the whole history of what happened before so people will stop criticizing them about ignoring Star Trek canon.

I think it doesn't really matter what they do anymore. They don't want to worry about what came before and I don't want to care about what they want to do going forward. So, fuck 'em.

Damn, I wish it wasn't behind CBS's paywall... I'd like to at least give it a chance.




Link to original video: https://youtu.be/KbXy0f0aCN0

quote:

Originally posted by Paten:
At the same time, the rebooted movie franchise may be dying.

Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth 'Star Trek 4' Future In Doubt as Talks Fall Through

I really dislike the new Captain Kirk anyway but I don't see how they can continue the franchise without him and I don't think they can recast him.

QT is directing the next Star Trek movie and says it will be like Pulp Fiction in space.

https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2...ulp-fiction-in-space