quote:

Originally posted by aparoche:
I just got back from Solo and it was a snoozefest.

I thought it was okay, but the lead was seriously miscast.

TLJ was just awful on so many levels. Tons of plot holes. It totally undid all the plot points set up in TFA. And they've morphed it from a 'fantasy' movie into a 'science fiction' movie. But the #1 thing was they took all the original characters and deconstructed them. The most glaring example being Luke. The man who went into the lion's den to face the most ruthless killer in the galaxy in order to redeem him. But now he's the crazy, cranky uncle that no one wants at the family reunion. He went from one of the greatest heroes in SW, to a whiny little bitch. Leia turned into Mary Poppins. Han is dead (but I think Ford demanded his character end). The entire convoluted plot to have Finn and Rose go one some BS trip to save the animals was just awful writing. They had set up Snoke to be some type of villain that would make Palpatine look like a Boy Scout, but just turned him into a giant nothing burger. TLJ didn't move the plot forward. It basically just took a dump on the existing SW characters and walked away. TLJ was so bad on so many levels I have no desire to see any more SW movies. I'm not sure Disney CAN right this ship. Not sure they want to. The script for TLJ seems like it was written by a bunch of people who grew up hating "those Star Wars nerds" and used this to make as much a mess of it as possible. That Disney exercised no oversight on this shows they truly do not care about SW at all.

quote:

Originally posted by XinTX:
TLJ was just awful on so many levels. Tons of plot holes. It totally undid all the plot points set up in TFA. And they've morphed it from a 'fantasy' movie into a 'science fiction' movie. But the #1 thing was they took all the original characters and deconstructed them. The most glaring example being Luke. The man who went into the lion's den to face the most ruthless killer in the galaxy in order to redeem him. But now he's the crazy, cranky uncle that no one wants at the family reunion. He went from one of the greatest heroes in SW, to a whiny little bitch. Leia turned into Mary Poppins. Han is dead (but I think Ford demanded his character end). The entire convoluted plot to have Finn and Rose go one some BS trip to save the animals was just awful writing. They had set up Snoke to be some type of villain that would make Palpatine look like a Boy Scout, but just turned him into a giant nothing burger. TLJ didn't move the plot forward. It basically just took a dump on the existing SW characters and walked away. TLJ was so bad on so many levels I have no desire to see any more SW movies. I'm not sure Disney CAN right this ship. Not sure they want to. The script for TLJ seems like it was written by a bunch of people who grew up hating "those Star Wars nerds" and used this to make as much a mess of it as possible. That Disney exercised no oversight on this shows they truly do not care about SW at all.

Ding, ding, ding! Excellent post.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
Four movies in four years will burn-out any fanbase

There's some truth to this, but there are clearly exceptions.

The most obvious example is the Marvel movies - even limiting the list to just the Marvel Studios movies (ignoring the 20th Century Fox and Sony movies), there have been 19 MCU movies released in the last 10 years (with one more coming in a couple weeks).

Movies 6, 11, 18, and 19 are all in the top 10 highest grossing movies ever.

I guess the argument could be made that the Marvel movies have gone beyond needing the support of a fanbase as such, but I would think the same argument would apply to Star Wars.

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

quote:

Originally posted by XinTX:
TLJ was just awful on so many levels. Tons of plot holes. It totally undid all the plot points set up in TFA. And they've morphed it from a 'fantasy' movie into a 'science fiction' movie. But the #1 thing was they took all the original characters and deconstructed them. The most glaring example being Luke. The man who went into the lion's den to face the most ruthless killer in the galaxy in order to redeem him. But now he's the crazy, cranky uncle that no one wants at the family reunion. He went from one of the greatest heroes in SW, to a whiny little bitch. Leia turned into Mary Poppins. Han is dead (but I think Ford demanded his character end). The entire convoluted plot to have Finn and Rose go one some BS trip to save the animals was just awful writing. They had set up Snoke to be some type of villain that would make Palpatine look like a Boy Scout, but just turned him into a giant nothing burger. TLJ didn't move the plot forward. It basically just took a dump on the existing SW characters and walked away. TLJ was so bad on so many levels I have no desire to see any more SW movies. I'm not sure Disney CAN right this ship. Not sure they want to. The script for TLJ seems like it was written by a bunch of people who grew up hating "those Star Wars nerds" and used this to make as much a mess of it as possible. That Disney exercised no oversight on this shows they truly do not care about SW at all.

Ding, ding, ding! Excellent post.

My one counterpoint to his argument is that Luke Skywalker started out as a whiny little bitch before realizing his potential.

It's not "fan fatigue"

It was a shitty movie. Accept it you Disney assholes... It sucked. You pissed on Star Wars.

Fuck you Rian Johnson

quote:

Originally posted by Orguss:

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:

quote:

Originally posted by XinTX:
TLJ was just awful on so many levels. Tons of plot holes. It totally undid all the plot points set up in TFA. And they've morphed it from a 'fantasy' movie into a 'science fiction' movie. But the #1 thing was they took all the original characters and deconstructed them. The most glaring example being Luke. The man who went into the lion's den to face the most ruthless killer in the galaxy in order to redeem him. But now he's the crazy, cranky uncle that no one wants at the family reunion. He went from one of the greatest heroes in SW, to a whiny little bitch. Leia turned into Mary Poppins. Han is dead (but I think Ford demanded his character end). The entire convoluted plot to have Finn and Rose go one some BS trip to save the animals was just awful writing. They had set up Snoke to be some type of villain that would make Palpatine look like a Boy Scout, but just turned him into a giant nothing burger. TLJ didn't move the plot forward. It basically just took a dump on the existing SW characters and walked away. TLJ was so bad on so many levels I have no desire to see any more SW movies. I'm not sure Disney CAN right this ship. Not sure they want to. The script for TLJ seems like it was written by a bunch of people who grew up hating "those Star Wars nerds" and used this to make as much a mess of it as possible. That Disney exercised no oversight on this shows they truly do not care about SW at all.

Ding, ding, ding! Excellent post.

My one counterpoint to his argument is that Luke Skywalker started out as a whiny little bitch before realizing his potential.

Yes he did, just like his father. But unlike his father, he grew to understand there was more than him, there was a bigger picture and a larger fight that meant more than him. Anakin was the chosen one, but Luke was the beginning of the new Jedi. Anakin never overcame his whiny needy nature, Luke did. And having overcome that, he wouldn't have gone back and become a whiny bitch recluse. Even if he did, it wouldn't have been for long.

I never saw anything that said "whiny and needy" whenever Vader was on-screen in the original trilogy or Rogue One. He seemed like a self-realized man of power, though he was still only a subordinate to Palpatine.

Which makes me wonder if Vader ever contemplated overthrowing Palpatine, as Sith are wont to do.

quote:

Which makes me wonder if Vader ever contemplated overthrowing Palpatine, as Sith are wont to do.

Didn't he muse of letting Luke destroy the Emperor and ruling the galaxy as father and son? During his duel with Luke at the end of TESB.

quote:

Originally posted by Orguss:
I never saw anything that said "whiny and needy" whenever Vader was on-screen in the original trilogy or Rogue One. He seemed like a self-realized man of power, though he was still only a subordinate to Palpatine.

Which makes me wonder if Vader ever contemplated overthrowing Palpatine, as Sith are wont to do.

He tried to overthrow Palpatine from the moment he became Vader, on Mustafar he asked Padme to help him overthrow Palpatine and they would rule together.

It is the Sith way, that's why there are only two, one to have the power and the other to crave it. It keeps the master on his toes, and ensures only the strongest will survive.

Vader was weak, maybe he was badass killing machine, but he was weak. Vader was all of the failings of Anakin, his neediness, his ego, his need to control everything around him. That's why he turned back in the end. He saw his son, dying in front of him, stronger than he had ever been, not giving in to Palpatine and his bullshit. He saw everything he had failed to do, and saw his son was the Jedi he never became.

Vader may have been powerful, but he was never self-realized, he was a slave to Palpatine, a slave to the decisions he made that he thought there was no going back from. His son sensed all that.

You can even see some of that regret in RoTJ, as Vader and Luke talk. Vader even says to Luke

"Obi wan once thought as you do" and "It is too late for me son."

Vader knows he has become a monster, he sees there is no way out, its what he is now. Its why he wants Luke to help him overthrow Palpatine, he not only wants the power, but he wants some kind of validation. Even Palpatine can sense the hesitation in Vader and knows Luke is a threat

quote:

Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
It's not "fan fatigue"

It was a shitty movie. Accept it you Disney assholes... It sucked. You pissed on Star Wars.

Fuck you Rian Johnson

Agreed 100%

quote:

Originally posted by Orguss:
I never saw anything that said "whiny and needy" whenever Vader was on-screen in the original trilogy or Rogue One. He seemed like a self-realized man of power, though he was still only a subordinate to Palpatine.


Which makes me wonder if Vader ever contemplated overthrowing Palpatine, as Sith are wont to do.

A BRIEF BREAK FROM YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD FOR A STAR WARS DISCUSSION POST:

Palpatine gave Vader a less than useful survival suit, it kept him alive and in pain all the time and greatly limited his use of the force. It was also very susceptible to force lightning which Vader could not do in his diminished state. All Palpatine had to was zap Vader with Force lightning which would fry the suit and kill Vader. It is a really a tribute to how strong Vader/Anakin was in the force that he could function and fight at all. Anakin/Vader was all about overthrowing Palpatine but he did not have the right tool until he met and tried to turn Luke.

I always thought that Palpatine had the Sith "Rule of 2+" going. He had a #1 apprentice and then a bunch of others in the background waiting for their time. Darth Maul distracted the Jedi while Count Dooku was in the background forming the Separatist Alliance. As soon as Maul was defeated, Dooku stepped in. As soon as Dooku was of no use, he was killed for Anakin to take his place. If Luke had killed Vader, Luke would have been Palpatine's new #1 apprentice. Palpatine was always about upgrading his apprentice....especially when they had grown in enough power to potentially threaten him.

BACK TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD.

Disney and Lucas Films tossed out all the books, graphic novels and other canon and started their own. Okay, there was some good stuff in "The Clone War" animated series and good stuff in Star Wars Rebels which they built upon with Rogue One. The Force Awakens was ok, it set the stage........and they promptly blew the crap out of that stage like an exploding Death Star leaving just junk, crap, and rubble behind with The Last Jedi.

Right now, my opinion is if they keep up with the crap, I won't watch another Star Wars movie ever again.

I guess it turns out Kathleen Kennedy was wrong after all, they did need us "white guys" to go see Star Wars.

Getting the writers of Game of Thrones to do a series is a good move. Keep Rian Johnson is a bad move.

Fuck you Rian Johnson

I don't buy the whole 'fan fatigue' thing. It's a typical liberal excuse for poor performance.

Didney WOrl won't admit that Ep 8 sucked; they won't admit that their lousy excuse for crappy writing and overt virtue-signaling destroyed what SHOULD HAVE BEEN an excellent film. No, they will blame it on racism or eevil white males. Anything but the real issues.

As long as they pump out garbage films I will stay away until such time that they show they are taking the franchise (and the fans) seriously.

I can watch Ep 4/5/6 over and over again with no issues. I even watched Rogue One a few times. Maybe even ep 3 a few times, but I can't say the same about TLJ or even TFA.

4-6 are great. Rogue One was legit.

1-3 were generally ass.

7 / TFA showed some potential and 8 utterly failed to capitalize on ANY of it. Luke was a whiny bitch, from tossing his lightsaber to whimpering about the First Jedi temple.

I'm sure I'll watch "Solo" when it makes its way to free TV, but no way I'm going to a theater.

And NO MATTER WHAT...

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
I don't buy the whole 'fan fatigue' thing. It's a typical liberal excuse for poor performance.

Didney WOrl won't admit that Ep 8 sucked; they won't admit that their lousy excuse for crappy writing and overt virtue-signaling destroyed what SHOULD HAVE BEEN an excellent film. No, they will blame it on racism or eevil white males. Anything but the real issues.

As long as they pump out garbage films I will stay away until such time that they show they are taking the franchise (and the fans) seriously.

"Fan fatigue" is pure BS. Doesn't seem to affect the Marvel franchise at all. What hurt Solo was the fact that TLJ was such a steaming turd. But what I cannot understand is, having paid what, $2B for this franchise, that Disney didn't do any quality control before they shipped this product. I can't see how anyone who had any affinity for the Star Wars franchise could watch TLJ with a critical eye and not call it out for the piece of crap it is. Heck, how could that story line even make it past even a cursory QC review? What has helped Marvel is they try to maintain some sense of continuity between their films. Watching TFA and then TLJ, it's like they were made by two separate companies. Never mind trying to synch them with the original trilogy. No way Rian Johnson ever should have been given the green light to go forward with this story.

And to those that say Katlheen Kennedy helped bring SW 'back to life', I say BS. She was given a golden goose and only managed to strangle it. Yes, TFA made money. But go back and look at "Honest Trailers" for it prior to release. A quote in there (and I'll paraphrase) "Let's face it, it's a Star Wars film. It could be two hours of a monkey washing a cat and you'd still go see it.................twice." So I think almost anyone could have made this franchise succeed. It took effort and malice to make a Star Wars film that actually lost money (as I've heard is the case with Soylo).