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Legalize the Constitution
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Another brutally windy day today. Mary and I curled up on the couch downstairs and watched “A Bridge Too Far,” about the disastrous Allied effort to end the War “by Christmas” in 1944, with Operation Market Garden. The plan, which required EVERYTHING to work as British Field Marshall Montgomery envisioned (imagined?, hoped?), in order for ANY of it to work was a Charlie Foxtrot before Allied forces ever left England. This is a British movie, so if the Brits think their officers corps were made up of a bunch of upper class, incompetent prima donnas, who am I to argue? British command staff made it clear that this mission would go off, no matter what. They didn’t even want to hear about intel like a German Panzer Division (Waffen SS) at Arnhem. The paratroopers were told “old men and children” made up German defenses. The radios didn’t work in Dutch low country and Allies couldn’t communicate with each other OR with British High Command.

Yes, I have seen it before, but it had been a long time.


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Posts: 11441 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I saw it at Herzo Artillery Base theater with other rowdy GIs and several invited German Friends. I (and they) thought it was awesome and I still do. I have it on DVD and it may be time to dust it off.

And no CGI, unlike a lot of today's "classics".
 
Posts: 702 | Registered: January 17, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
goodheart
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I’m always close to tears when the British prisoners begin singing “Abide with me”.


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Posts: 16981 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Great movie. It's been too long since I've seen it....I just noticed last night that it's free on YouTube. It may need to be on the agenda tonight for me and the oldest boy.
 
Posts: 5891 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I listened to an interview a few years ago from a guy who was in one of those rubber boats as they tried to cross the river with the Germans machine gunning them... it was his 21st birthday, he said he was 40 years old by the time he made it to the other side....

About 12 or 15 made it to the other side and they headed back up river to the bridge and came across a house with about 30 German soldiers asleep in it. the person doing the interview asked what they did with the germans... his answer was... we killed them... all.
 
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Posts: 10665 | Location: NV | Registered: July 04, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One of my favorites, and talk about a star-studded lineup! Connery, Redford, O’Neal, Caan, Hopkins, Gould, and the list goes on.



"The sea was angry that day, my friends - like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli." - George Costanza
 
Posts: 6359 | Registered: September 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by TheFrontRange:
One of my favorites, and talk about a star-studded lineup! Connery, Redford, O’Neal, Caan, Hopkins, Gould, and the list goes on.


That's my one complaint. Sean Connery and Anthony Hopkins were excellent, the others (mostly Americans) distracted from the movie. Especially Gene Hackman speaking with a Polish accent! The worst: Elliot Gould chomping on the cigar.
 
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After the Final Countdown, this might be the number one Sig Forum movie for original threads about the same thing. Smile And I have no objections.

Love them film, watch it once or twice a year.


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Posts: 19600 | Location: 18th & Fairfax  | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Posts: 12613 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes, pretty good movie. Similar to The Longest Day with every male actor having a small part.

As far as the real Operation Market Garden, I still can't believe Montgomery talked Eisenhower into that operation. Too many moving parts, probably doomed from the start. In my opinion, Montgomery was highly overrated as a military leader.
 
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Legalize the Constitution
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quote:
Originally posted by NavyAgShooter:
Yes, pretty good movie. Similar to The Longest Day with every male actor having a small part.

As far as the real Operation Market Garden, I still can't believe Montgomery talked Eisenhower into that operation. Too many moving parts, probably doomed from the start. In my opinion, Montgomery was highly overrated as a military leader.

I don’t know too many Americans who don’t think Montgomery was highly overrated.


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Posts: 11441 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: January 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by TMats:
I don’t know too many Americans who don’t think Montgomery was highly overrated.


If they'd given Bradley or Patton the men and supplies we might have beaten the Russians to Berlin. How that would have changed things. The sellout at the Yalta Conference would never have happened.


In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act
 
Posts: 2675 | Location: W. Central NH | Registered: October 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by NavyAgShooter:
As far as the real Operation Market Garden, I still can't believe Montgomery talked Eisenhower into that operation.

Monty wore down Ike, and this op was him pitching him a bone to placate the Brit army. The RAF and Bomber Harris was razing German cities and the RN was holding its own in the N.Atlantic while the BPF was nearing its formidable peak in the Pacific. Monty was the plucky character that the public ate up, much like the US public ate up whatever MacArther was dishing out. smh
 
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Muzzle flash
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quote:
Originally posted by Blackmore:
quote:
Originally posted by TMats:
I don’t know too many Americans who don’t think Montgomery was highly overrated.


If they'd given Bradley or Patton the men and supplies we might have beaten the Russians to Berlin. How that would have changed things. The sellout at the Yalta Conference would never have happened.
I thought that the fix was in for the Russians to enter Berlin first--sort of repayment for the horrible things the NAZIs did to their countrymen/women.

flashguy




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Posts: 26831 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: May 08, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A Bridge Too Far is one of the best (if not the best) war movie ever.

It is one of the few that actually tracks the real battle. There are a few excesses, such as having Robert Redford take the Nijmegen bridge (rather than the British).

The score is a truly great one but it was not even nominated (to face Star Wars).
 
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Originally posted by flashguy:
I thought that the fix was in for the Russians to enter Berlin first--sort of repayment for the horrible things the NAZIs did to their countrymen/women.


That deal wasn't made until the Yalta Conference in February 1945.


In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act
 
Posts: 2675 | Location: W. Central NH | Registered: October 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One of the better epic war movies. Dirk Borgade who plays LT. General Browning, was at the original battle as an aide to Browning.

Great job on building 6 of the original gliders used for the Parachute scenes.

My favorite scene is the opening German scene as FM von Rundstedt arrives. The english sub-titles do not do justice to the scene. Although I do find the scene with Bittrich offering Frost chocolate amusing.

The Brits were still trying to pretend they were an equal partner on the allied side in '44. It was an American show. The RN, RAF and Army without extensive US support at all levels, could not have landed. The raid at Dieppe showed this.

I think FM Montgomery (Monty) felt that with American tactical airpower (air to ground support from Thunderbolts) would help crush the 1st German Parachute army.

Monty would only attack when he had the Germans significantly outnumbers at all levels. Rommel did not have such luxury.

American tactical airpower was the difference since D-day. The regional rail net in Normandy was taken out in 2 weeks - creating a logistical nightmare for the Germans.

You see a bit of the awesomeness of the tactical airpower in the initial 30 Corps attack. Even LT. General Bittrich (Maximilian Schell) comments on it.

9th SS PZ and 10th SS Pz were way below strength and were scheduled to be sent back to Germany for reconstitution. They were both below 50 pct strength. The Germans would let divisions drop down to about 10 percent, and then pull them out of the line. 9th SS also had its artillery entrained for Germany, so the 9th SS Pz was even more disadvantaged.

I look at Market Garden as Crete for the Allies. Basically 2 parachute operations on a grand scale. Crete the Germans barely won, after seizing one airfield, eventually, to allow the air landing divisions with heavy equipment to arrive.

The Brit 1st Para's held out - but at a 80 pct casualty rate (even 10 pct higher than the German rate at Crete). At least Col. Frost (effectively the 1st Para Division - The Red Devils) got a bridge named after him/them for their extreme sacrifice.

A very good movie overall even with its detractions.


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It only stands to reason that where there's sacrifice, there's someone collecting the sacrificial offerings. Where there's service, there is someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice is speaking of slaves and masters, and intends to be the master.

Ayn Rand


"He gains votes ever and anew by taking money from everybody and giving it to a few, while explaining that every penny was extracted from the few to be giving to the many."

Ogden Nash from his poem - The Politician
 
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