I am wanting to get a new pair of boots. They will be used for hiking over uneven terrain with a ~50LB load. Stability is a priority. The boots must be US-made. The boots must be no shorter than six inches. The boots must NOT be tall sneakers. The boots will not be GORTEX. A steel or composite toe will not disqualify a boot, but is not required. I understand my feet are uniquely mine, and I ought to try things on before I buy. I am looking for initial recommendations to prompt research at this point. As an example of what I have in mind, I am currently primarily considering the Danner Marine Expeditionary Boot. I look forward to your recommendations.

American made footwear is exceptionally hard to find, and even harder to start-up a factory & securing contracts. Footwear manufacturing isn't like being a seamstress or, tailor, as such the skills necessary to get into is hard, and the skills needed to make good-to-high quality is even harder, it takes A LOT of time to gain the knowledge and skills. Not a mystery why high-end boots in teh world are made in Italy, Germany and Switzerland, they've retained those skills and people there value it.

The lasts used in military-issue boots are made to fit a general foot-shape if you have any issues like wide/narrow, high/low instep or, arch, you will be challenged.
Boot height = weight, the taller it is, the more your body will have to work.
Any boot using single-piece leather or has a Goodyear welt, is going to require a significant break-in period....there's a reason why that style of boot is no longer popular.

Danner has the broadest assortment of USA made boots; nearby Keen (Portland, OR) has several models and since they don't use Gore, it checks your requirements.
Keen Durand II

LL Bean and Schnee's in Montana make their own duck-style boots. Thorogood, White's and a few other work wear brands also have USA made models however I don't believe any of them are suitable for trail usage.

Red Wing is another US boot brand known for high quality work/hiking boots.

https://www.redwingshoes.com/work/mens/?grid=true

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
The lasts used in military-issue boots are made to fit a general foot-shape if you have any issues like wide/narrow, high/low instep or, arch, you will be challenged.

That's less of an issue nowadays. Military boots have been available in wide and narrow widths for a while now. And arch support can be customized with insoles.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Red Wing is another US boot brand known for high quality work/hiking boots.

I actually have four pairs of Red Wings. I have mixed feelings about them. I have gone through two pairs of slippers in far less time than I think is appropriate for a brand like Red Wing. The other three models are the Iron Ranger, Wacouta, and Roughneck. The Wacouta is the most comfortable but has worn out quickest. The Iron Ranger is wearing quicker than I feel it ought to. The Roughnecks are easily the best, of the ones I have. I have hiked in all three; easy hikes in the Wacoutas, relatively serious hikes in the Rangers, and pretty dang serious hikes in the Roughnecks. None of them are something I'd consider for what I am after now, and I don't recall them having a model that would be appropriate. It's worth a check though.

Thank you, Rogue and corsair, for the input.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
The lasts used in military-issue boots are made to fit a general foot-shape if you have any issues like wide/narrow, high/low instep or, arch, you will be challenged.

That's less of an issue nowadays. Military boots have been available in wide and narrow widths for a while now. And arch support can be customized with insoles.

You're not wrong, thankfully things have improved, and the roster of approved footwear has expanded greatly. However, the lasts used are still of a general shape, and if you luck-out and have a foot with say narrow heels and wide forefoot, no amount of inserts or, mods will help you.

While many people like to turn to the military as a reference point for items (like uniforms), the one point to keep in mind is those items are made to fulfill general specifications and cost considerations are paramount. So, good place to get ideas but, there's much, much more available on the open market.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
Stability is a priority. The boots must be US-made. The boots must be no shorter than six inches. The boots must NOT be tall sneakers. The boots will not be GORTEX.

LOL - other than your stability priority (always a good thing in a hiking boot) and my preference they be US-made (acknowledging "Good luck with that"): The boots I'm currently seeking are nearly the exact opposite of those you are.

I'm curious: Why the requirement your boots not incorporate Gor-Tex®? I know that early-on, Gor-Tex boot water-proofing was hit-or-miss. (More often miss than hit.) Mostly due to problems achieving effective seam sealing that would stay sealed. It is my understanding modern boots incorporating Gor-Tex have overcome those problems?

The reasons I'm seeking lower-rise, tall-sneaker-style boots is for one of the reasons mentioned by one of the thread's prior respondents, weight, and for greater flexibility--which leads to greater comfort. (Contrary to popular misconception: Footwear flexibility and stability are unrelated. Footwear stability derives primarily from a proper foot bed fit.)

My hunting boots are Danner. I ordered them with more of a field-type sole than a lug sole, because I tired of collecting mud in the lugs. The sole are not just crepe, but ribbed, and seem to offer sufficient traction for my needs, even in the mountains. I have LL Bean leather hiking boots with full Vibram lug soles, but they were made in Romania.

if you go outside the USA -- check out Lowa. They are European and high quality.

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quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I'm curious: Why the requirement your boots not incorporate Gor-Tex®? I know that early-on, Gor-Tex boot water-proofing was hit-or-miss. (More often miss than hit.) Mostly due to problems achieving effective seam sealing that would stay sealed. It is my understanding modern boots incorporating Gor-Tex have overcome those problems?

The reasons I'm seeking lower-rise, tall-sneaker-style boots is for one of the reasons mentioned by one of the thread's prior respondents, weight, and for greater flexibility--which leads to greater comfort. (Contrary to popular misconception: Footwear flexibility and stability are unrelated. Footwear stability derives primarily from a proper foot bed fit.)

I live in GA, so it is more often warm than cool. I understand GORTEX is breathable, but if it didn't have negative effects, they wouldn't bother making boots without it. Considering the hotter climate, I'd rather not have it. I can waterproof enough to defeat the occasional dip in a stream.

I agree that fit is very important, when it comes to stability. I want a more rigid sole so I don't feel the odd stone poking me when I have a heavy pack weighing down. Also, I like to be able to kick things with my toe and heel without hurting myself; a rigid, true boot sole that protrudes beyond the outside perimeter of the foot "housing" permits this.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
if you go outside the USA -- check out Lowa. They are European and high quality.

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Lowas are favorites of mine. Lowa also fits me right, which as you note is the most important thing.

They are worth a look.

Chippewa boots, Thorogood boots also
made in USA.

.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
(Contrary to popular misconception: Footwear flexibility and stability are unrelated. Footwear stability derives primarily from a proper foot bed fit.)

I pretty much agree in terms of foot support/stability, but would add the caveat that ANKLE support/stability is a little more complicated.

In conditions where rolling an ankle is a significant concern - uneven rocky terrain, loose rocky terrain, areas with lots of exposed roots, etc. - a higher boot that provides more support to the ankle joint and limits the extremes of the ankle joint's range of motion can be beneficial.

This is especially true when carrying much of a load, say, anything heavier than a day pack. The extra weight beyond the typical body weight your joints are accustomed to support puts a lot of extra stress on the joints, and rolling an ankle wearing a heavy pack is much more likely to result in a significant injury than rolling an ankle when you're just out hiking.

I do quite a bit of hiking in low-top hiking or trail running shoes, but if I'm backpacking (or much more frequently these days, hiking with a kid in a kid carrier), I almost always wear real hiking boots with significant ankle support. If I don't, I can definitely feel the strain in my ankles by the end of even a moderate hike, even if I never misstep or roll an ankle.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:
I live in GA, so it is more often warm than cool. I understand GORTEX is breathable, but if it didn't have negative effects, they wouldn't bother making boots without it. Considering the hotter climate, I'd rather not have it. I can waterproof enough to defeat the occasional dip in a stream.

Depending on what type of waterproofing you use, if you want waterproofing, you may be better off just going with Gore-Tex.

I have non-waterproof boots I use for dry, warm-weather hiking because Gore-Tex and other similar waterproof membrane technologies DO have a negative impact on breathability, although it isn't a huge impact.

I haven't used any of the high-tech hydrophobic user-applied waterproofing treatments. I don't know how effective they are, either at waterproofing or at maintaining breathability.

What I have used for a long time is Sno-Seal, which is a traditional beeswax-based waterproofing treatment that you work into the leather with heat and elbow grease. Sno-Seal works GREAT - it makes leather boots ABSOLUTELY waterproof - but it does also reduce breathability, maybe more than Gore-Tex does.

I actually tend to Sno-Seal my Gore-Tex boots. Even though the Gore-Tex will keep any water from getting through the boots to your feet, if you are in sustained wet conditions, the leather itself will absorb a surprising amount of water. That can make boots quite a bit heavier, and if it is cold outside, it makes the boots much less effective insulators and will make your feet a lot colder.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Depending on what type of waterproofing you use, if you want waterproofing, you may be better off just going with Gore-Tex.

I intend to occasionally spray with Camp-Dry, or something similar. I don't know for sure, but I imagine that should retain most of the breathability.

quote:

Originally posted by KSGM:

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Depending on what type of waterproofing you use, if you want waterproofing, you may be better off just going with Gore-Tex.

I intend to occasionally spray with Camp-Dry, or something similar. I don't know for sure, but I imagine that should retain most of the breathability.

If you're buying leather boots, be careful with spray-on waterproofing. Some of that stuff contains chemicals that literally melts the adhesives some boot-makers use.

Or at least that used to be true back in the day when I did that kind of thing.

On my leather boots I use nothing but Sno-Seal.

As always, don't assume the "american made" brand boots are made in America. Check the specific model before you buy. Same goes for the well known Euro brands. They may be made in Europe, but not the part the company is from, like Italian boots... made in Romania. (still better than China) (I've had a pair of "Swiss" boots, made in China, for about 25 years now. So it's nothing new.)

I wish I had a good answer for you, but I don't. I bought a pair of Zamberlain's for hunting two years ago, and while I like them, I keep asking myself "Did I really pay $400 for a pair of off the shelf boots?"

As for Danner, I got a pair of China Danners on clearance the other day, looking at them, they won't last long. Two days ago I sent my US made Danner desert boots out for repair and resole. While they're 10 years old, they have VERY low miles on them. Seams split in two places, soles wore very fast considering how little use they got and that 90% of their use was in the sand or in the woods. They didn't impress me from new and I'm not sure spending money on the was the right choice, but since there are so few other options...

quote:

Originally posted by cas:
As always, don't assume the "american made" brand boots are made in America. Check the specific model before you buy. Same goes for the well known Euro brands. They may be made in Europe, but not the part the company is from, like Italian boots... made in Romania. (still better than China) (I've had a pair of "Swiss" boots, made in China, for about 25 years now. So it's nothing new.)

I wish I had a good answer for you, but I don't. I bought a pair of Zamberlain's for hunting two years ago, and while I like them, I keep asking myself "Did I really pay $400 for a pair of off the shelf boots?"

As for Danner, I got a pair of China Danners on clearance the other day, looking at them, they won't last long. Two days ago I sent my US made Danner desert boots out for repair and resole. While they're 10 years old, they have VERY low miles on them. Seams split in two places, soles wore very fast considering how little use they got and that 90% of their use was in the sand or in the woods. They didn't impress me from new and I'm not sure spending money on the was the right choice, but since there are so few other options...

I agree with all of this. Well said.

I have been making a big effort to buy American over the past eighteen months or so, and it is not easy. You have to do a lot of sleuthing, and you'd still be smart to call and inquire about the specific item you want, even after doing detective work. Even things that say "American" this or that are likely only referring to one or two items in their lineup. Thorogood Boots, mentioned above, is a good example of this. As you said American does not equal quality, which sucks. I know it all too well, from my experiences with Red Wing shoes.

Thanks for the tip on spray-on waterproofing, ensigmatic.

I've been a Danner fan for the last 10 years. Be careful. Some are American made and some are not.