quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:
***Spoiler Alert***



She wasn't explicitly portrayed as such, but I'm convinced there was a Soviet spy who not only covertly obtained and provided intelligence on Beth's abilities and weaknesses, but directly attempted to sabotage Beth's first head to head competition with a Russian master. That's pretty "evil" in my book!

Are you referring to Cleo?

Yup!!!

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:
***Spoiler Alert***



She wasn't explicitly portrayed as such, but I'm convinced there was a Soviet spy who not only covertly obtained and provided intelligence on Beth's abilities and weaknesses, but directly attempted to sabotage Beth's first head to head competition with a Russian master. That's pretty "evil" in my book!

Are you referring to Cleo?

Yup!!!

Pretty wild fan theory.

Beth's first match vs Borgov was in Mexico before she met Cleo. Cleo was 'dating'/hanging out w/ Benny's chess master pals in NYC before they met Beth.

Beth's second match vs Borgov was in Paris, where Cleo said she lived when she wasn't travelling. Was there something that hinted at the Soviets hiring Cleo to compromise Beth before her rematch vs Borgov?

It would have been more interesting & viable if they had hired/blackmailed Townes to sabotage Beth. It would have been a better explanation as to how he got to Moscow so easily. I found it hard to believe the Lexington Herald-Leader would spend thousands of dollars to send an associate editor to cover her story.

***Spoilers***

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

It would have been more interesting & viable if they had hired/blackmailed Townes to sabotage Beth. It would have been a better explanation as to how he got to Moscow so easily. I found it hard to believe the Lexington Herald-Leader would spend thousands of dollars to send an associate editor to cover her story.

Townes actually mentions it. Beth asks him how he got a Visa so quickly and Townes replies that it was partly because of his Press access, but also that the Moscow consulate helped--hoping that he would, at the least, be a distraction.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
***Spoilers***

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

It would have been more interesting & viable if they had hired/blackmailed Townes to sabotage Beth. It would have been a better explanation as to how he got to Moscow so easily. I found it hard to believe the Lexington Herald-Leader would spend thousands of dollars to send an associate editor to cover her story.

Townes actually mentions it. Beth asks him how he got a Visa so quickly and Townes replies that it was partly because of his Press access, but also that the Moscow consulate helped--hoping that he would, at the least, be a distraction.

Yes, and it would have been more interesting and suspenseful if Townes were an actual spy or saboteur. Think of the added wrinkles if the Soviets knew Townes was gay and blackmailed him by threatening to out him. Townes would have been torn by his loyalty to Beth and obligations to the Soviets. Would he sabotage Beth or commit career suicide?

It's why I made my comment earlier. I'm glad the show didn't make these ridiculous, in my opinion, unoriginal Russian spy arcs. The story is about Beth.

The fact that it left you with your own suspicions and speculations means it was well done and was just enough.

quote:

Originally posted by Keystoner:
It's why I made my comment earlier. I'm glad the show didn't make these ridiculous, in my opinion, unoriginal Russian spy arcs. The story is about Beth.

Agreed. Beth and, secondarily, the mind of a chess master--what it takes to play the game at its most stratospheric levels.

Adding some nonsensical spy arc to the story would have distracted from the overall story.

There are few movies or series about which I've ever been able to say this, but I almost feel I could already watch it all over again.

I have to admit, that I've probably watched the series three or four times now. One thing that I've picked up on, is that never once is Beth referred to as a Grand Master. Throughout the series, we're introduced to people who are either described as being Masters or Grand Masters. It seems like by the time Beth goes to Mexico, that she should be referred to as a Grand Master. It does seem like the writers went out of their way to keep that moniker from her.

quote:

Originally posted by HuskySig:
It seems like by the time Beth goes to Mexico, that she should be referred to as a Grand Master. It does seem like the writers went out of their way to keep that moniker from her.

Not at all. Chess rating systems are complex and require quality & volume of wins. It isn't as simple as beating a couple Grandmasters earns one entry into the Grandmaster club.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_rating_system

*****SPOILER ALERT*****



At Beth's first tournament, the KY State Championship, the Matt & Mike twins explain, "You play 30 games in USCF tournaments, then wait four months," just to get one's intial rating. I believe Mexico was Beth's first international tournament. She had been playing in sactioned tournaments for two years. At best she would have attained some level of master rating by then. She lost to Borgov in Mexico and Paris, so even after beating him in Moscow, it's questionable if she had accumalated enough points for a Grandmaster rating.

My wife and I both loved this show, though went it thinking, How interesting can a series about chess and substance abuse/addiction be? Just goes to show, you can't judge a book by its cover, as this was one of the best things I've seen on TV for a very long time.

Speaking of books, discovered a week or so ago that it's based on a '83 novel by Walter Tevis. May have been common knowledge for some, but I had no idea. I plan to keep an eye out for the book...I'd like to revisit that story, and would be interested to see how the series varied from the source book.

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:

quote:

Originally posted by iron chef:

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:
***Spoiler Alert***



She wasn't explicitly portrayed as such, but I'm convinced there was a Soviet spy who not only covertly obtained and provided intelligence on Beth's abilities and weaknesses, but directly attempted to sabotage Beth's first head to head competition with a Russian master. That's pretty "evil" in my book!

Are you referring to Cleo?

Yup!!!

Pretty wild fan theory.

Beth's first match vs Borgov was in Mexico before she met Cleo. Cleo was 'dating'/hanging out w/ Benny's chess master pals in NYC before they met Beth.

Beth's second match vs Borgov was in Paris, where Cleo said she lived when she wasn't travelling. Was there something that hinted at the Soviets hiring Cleo to compromise Beth before her rematch vs Borgov?

It would have been more interesting & viable if they had hired/blackmailed Townes to sabotage Beth. It would have been a better explanation as to how he got to Moscow so easily. I found it hard to believe the Lexington Herald-Leader would spend thousands of dollars to send an associate editor to cover her story.

The Russians had a HUGE amount of money and prestige tied to their chess masters (as they did/do with Olympic champions). For them to utilize informants to get intelligence on challengers like Beth isn't much of a stretch at all. For them to utilize assets to overcome Beth's attempts to rest up and prepare for the next day's match at this point in history (where the USA and the Soviet Union were deeply engaged in a Cold War that included instances of Russian athletes defecting) was certainly something both sides were concerned about. Look no further than Beth's "State Department" handler. Not a spy story in the strictest sense of the word (relating to national security), but without question on the propaganda front.

GF and I just finished the series. I get bummed because there are so few TV shows that actually grab me and that I can stay interested in, this one got my attention from the beginning and I was engaged all the way through the ending.

I need more TV like this!

I was thinking about starting a thread about this great series, not realizing this was happening last fall. I must have slept through it.

Anyway, I agree with all the positive comments. Thoroughly enjoyed this show!

Wife and I finished this series the other day as well and liked it quite a bit overall.


Spoilers below



I did wonder why Beth’s birth father though didn’t at least want to see her when Beth’s crazy mom tried to ask him for help just before the attempted murder-suicide. No matter how much he couldn’t stand her mother, he didn’t seem to make any attempt to even see his little girl even with her being right there in the car. He gave up on them and in my opinion ended up being not much better than the jerk adoption father (though he did try very early on to seemingly reconcile with Beth’s mom and see Beth).

quote:

Originally posted by LincolnSixEcho:
Spoilers below

I did wonder why Beth’s birth father though didn’t at least want to see her when Beth’s crazy mom tried to ask him for help just before the attempted murder-suicide. No matter how much he couldn’t stand her mother, he didn’t seem to make any attempt to even see his little girl even with her being right there in the car. He gave up on them and in my opinion ended up being not much better than the jerk adoption father (though he did try very early on to seemingly reconcile with Beth’s
mom and see Beth).

I also wonder why the birth father never popped up as Beth gained notoriety over the years?

quote:

Originally posted by HuskySig:

quote:

Originally posted by LincolnSixEcho:
Spoilers below

I did wonder why Beth’s birth father though didn’t at least want to see her when Beth’s crazy mom tried to ask him for help just before the attempted murder-suicide. No matter how much he couldn’t stand her mother, he didn’t seem to make any attempt to even see his little girl even with her being right there in the car. He gave up on them and in my opinion ended up being not much better than the jerk adoption father (though he did try very early on to seemingly reconcile with Beth’s
mom and see Beth).

I also wonder why the birth father never popped up as Beth gained notoriety over the years?

He's holding out until Season 2 is released in 2021?

I also loved the show. However I felt misled because the show went out of it's way to present itself as fact. As history. It was fiction, yes great fiction done in a grand way. With a great story and fantastic acting, so as I watched I was drawn in thinking "Wow, this really happened..." I guess I am just more gullible than most. But I feel almost lied to the way it was done.
With all the glowing comments during the last 3 pages I guess I am the only one who feels this way. Getting soft in my old age I guess. I will have to watch out for people selling bridges in the future... Oh well.

^ i had to look it up too & discover that it was fictional.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
GF and I just finished the series. I get bummed because there are so few TV shows that actually grab me and that I can stay interested in, this one got my attention from the beginning and I was engaged all the way through the ending.

I need more TV like this!

I agree. I hope they don't try and do any kind of a sequel, and just write and release more one-shots like this.

quote:

Originally posted by pulicords:
He's holding out until Season 2 is released in 2021?

Oh god no. They're going to ruin it.