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Hop head  |
I have a friend that does PRS, and sponsors a match, https://www.precisionrifleseri...emorial-rifle-match/ I was joking with him one day that I should bring a Win 52 and a Unertl to a match, and he encouraged it, but somehow, I think I would be last,,, https://chandlersfirearms.com/chesterfield-armament/ | |||
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| Member |
The experience would be eye opening. IIRC benchrest is 25 rounds per target page, with up to 20 minutes to shoot, and likely 4 target pages over the course of a match. And of course, from what can be virtually a gun locked into a ransom rest, with minimal sight movement between targets. Of course the targets are really small. Half-MOA capabilities are required to score well. Maybe even better than 1/2 MOA. Bottom line for the clock -- you get 48 seconds to take each shot. PRS (and local/regional steel matches that consider PRS rules a major pain in the backside) is regularly 10 shots per stage, with maybe 90-120 seconds per stage. Multiple targets, varying target distances, often shot from multiple positions, often significant sight movement among targets, often from positions with marginal support. Of course targets are larger. But I can honestly state that a 4-5" diameter circle at 200 yards ain't no cakewalk. A quality steel-match rifle will perform quite well in a benchrest match, as they will have similar accuracy capabilities to the benchrest specialty rifle. Bottom line for the clock -- you get 9-12 seconds to take each shot. | |||
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| Member |
Ever think of building your own? Not difficult and in the CZ 457 platform, no specialized tools needed really. And...you can space out the cost so it's not hitting your wallet all at once. My new benchrest rifle...(missing some parts but that's all I could afford this month)  This message has been edited. Last edited by: pace40, ____________ Pace | |||
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Member |
Building one is fun to do and you get some satisfaction when it turns out to be a real tack driver. I put together two CZ457s that were really good guns, I sold one and still shoot the one pictured on page 1. JEREMIAH 33:3 | |||
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| Freethinker |
Were I starting over, and especially if I were more interested in pure benchrest precision, that would be a good course to pursue. Best would be to get a CZ action and then add everything else, but I don’t know if that would even be possible. There is evidently one vendor that sells barreled actions to avoid the extra expense of an unwanted CZ stock, but receivers alone? At this stage of my shooting interests, though, my Tikka T1x is good enough. The ability to shoot somewhat smaller groups might help, but as has been pointed out, chance can just as likely throw a misaimed shot into a target as well as it can make a properly aimed shot into a miss.  My drills are all challenging and therefore most fun for me because of both the size of the targets and shooting from a somewhat unstable position. A Desert Precision or equivalent level rifle would probably not improve my success rate significantly, if at all. And of course to get the maximum benefit I’d have to spend a lot more money on the ammunition, not to mention lot testing and all that. I do, however, still think about the guns at times; if one can believe his claims for precision, it’s almost as if he has magic fairy dust to sprinkle on them to achieve his results. ► 6.0/94.0 “I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.” — The Wizard of Oz | |||
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| Member |
I hear you. I don't know if actions only are available. I just scour the local gun stores for used 457's and buy one when I find it so I can have one laying around. Sometimes I'm successful and sometimes not. When I don't have one and get the bug to do a build, I'll just go buy one of their Varmints and use that. That said, I greatly appreciate my T1X, as well, simply because all I had to do was drop a scope and a trigger in it to make it benchrest competetive. Unfortunately (for me) is that my shooting niche turned out to be benchrest. Dropping a .22 round, into a .25 target, 25 times in a row, takes a little more than an off the shelf rifle and a bucket of yellow jackets. If someone had told me 10 years ago that I would be shooting $40/box 22LR out of a $3K+ rifle, I would have told them they are nuts but here it is. On the bright side, I get to sit on my butt and don't have to run around and contort into uncomfortable shooting positions.
And that, my friend, is the most important thing out of all of this.  ____________ Pace | |||
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| Like a party in your pants  |
Just curious; who makes the best .22 action with the fastest trigger lock time? What is the preferred barrel length for a bench rest style rifle. | |||
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| Member |
Zermatt Rimx or Voodoo on the action with the caveat that more than one match trigger is available for each. For barrel length I've seen 21" to 28" with arguments for those and everywhere in between. Bottom line is you're matching barrel with ammo, so in my mind, it doesn't matter. If you're shooting 2500 with it, who cares. All JMO, of course. ____________ Pace | |||
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| Freethinker |
My own experiences with 22LR barrel lengths. Long ago I first read that the cartridge developed its highest velocity from about 16 or so inches. More velocity is good, right? So that’s what I always thought was best. Much, much later and based on my own experiences and (perhaps) what I saw online, I don’t necessarily believe that. Perhaps it was true of certain loads, and especially long, long ago, but in any event I no longer want the highest velocities from the cartridge. Sometime in the past couple of years or so, I ran across an opinion that somewhat longer barrels were better for precision with 22LR because the bullet was stabilized better. That was only one claim, and I don’t recall seeing anything similar since. It would be good to know for certain, but when shooting high quality subsonic “match-type” ammunition for best short range accuracy, I assume longer barrels can’t hurt. In any event, when it was announced that the Tikka T1x in 22LR would be available with 16 or 20 inch barrel, I chose the longer. There is a supersonic “match” grade load or two(?) on the market and at its higher velocities I assume it’s better in the wind. The times I’ve seen the SK version tested, though, I wasn’t impressed with its precision. Also, at long ranges for the round the dreaded transonic transition will become an issue, and it’s conventional wisdom that that can affect precision. Based on a quick Internet search and ballistics calculator review, the claimed muzzle velocity of SK High Velocity Match is 1263 fps with 26"(!) barrel, but according to factory data it goes subsonic before 100 yards. In short, I’d just rather have a conventional high grade round for accuracy at distance that’s subsonic from the start. Of course, all that’s for max accuracy in gun games. At some point more velocity and therefore more power would be better for hunting. Assuming we hit the target. ► 6.0/94.0 “I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.” — The Wizard of Oz | |||
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| If you're gonna be a bear, be a Grizzly!  |
Lots of good stuff since I posted. I'm using my Ruger 10/22 Factory Target model, laminated stock and forged bull barrel with a Athlon 6x24 - 50 scope. It'll definitely shoot better than I can, but the potential is there. That's why I'm leaning towards the CZ 457 MTR. Or at least the 457 Varmit. I don't really see me going out into the custom side, but I do enjoy messing with my other 10/22s and have a Shaw barrel on order to start another build. The catch is, I feel like I could buy a MTR for what I'll have in the parts building another 10/22. And then there's the hunt for the right ammo. Here's to the sunny slopes of long ago. | |||
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| Member |
This part gets out of control quickly if you're not careful. Lot testing ammo is time consuming and pricey. You could send your gun off to have it tested and save time and a few bucks, but I find it as much fun as shooting for score, so I do it myself. The problem either way is once that perfect lot is gone, it's gone, and it starts all over again. ____________ Pace | |||
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| Member |
It sounds very counterintuitive but standard velocity ammo produces less wind drift over distance than high velocity. I shoot prs/ nrl type matches, and really enjoy them. Some day ( hopefully long in the future) when I become too weak and feeble for that might try benchrest. ( I do shoot a 1/5th scale target benchrest metallic silhouette match also) For prs/ nrl I find an optimally tuned 10/22 is adequate. ( I don’t beat the vudoo rim x kids, but that is a function of me not the gun!) my 10/22 is a Kidd in a krg stock. One thing that is pretty absolute is most consistent performance will come with European ammo. You can luck in to a good lot of CCI standard but using domestic made 22 ammo in any rifle event that demands precision is a wasted effort. | |||
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| Freethinker |
I’m always learning something new, but you had to have known that someone like me would check. And you’re right. I used the bullet data for SK Standard Plus (40 grain round nose) under standard atmospheric conditions at subsonic (1050 fps) and supersonic (1200 fps) velocities (and no spin drift). According to my Applied Ballistics solver, in a 10 mph 3 o’clock wind at 90 yards the subsonic projectile would be deflected about 2.76 inches whereas the supersonic bullet would be deflected 3.49 inches. Something else for me to research to try to understand, so thanks. ► 6.0/94.0 “I can’t give you brains, but I can give you a diploma.” — The Wizard of Oz | |||
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| If you're gonna be a bear, be a Grizzly! |
I got in a new scope and rings for the Target 10/22, and they sent me 1 inch rings for a 30mm scope. New mount and rings in bound, and then I'll get to try it all out. I'm gonna move my old scope to my carbon 10/22 just to see what it's capable of. Here's to the sunny slopes of long ago. | |||
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| Hop head |
my 52's etc are all smallbore match guns, not benchrest, tho some may be compatible with little effort, the rifles my friend uses are all custom, niche brand actions, flavor of the month barrels, and a big funky chassis, and a nightforce or similar on top, https://chandlersfirearms.com/chesterfield-armament/ | |||
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| If you're gonna be a bear, be a Grizzly! |
Starting another 10/22 build. I've got a Shaw tapered barrel inbound. Looking to put the new build in a Boyd stock that I have on order. Debating what trigger to go with, leaning towards KIDD single stage. I'm using an older rifle as a donor for the receiver unless I can find a stripped receiver somewhere. Still on the lookout for a CZ 457 MTR. Here's to the sunny slopes of long ago. | |||
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