I've managed 10, Scott 12 and I believe Bruce holds the record at 13.

The original stage one had 4 targets from 4-800 +/-, 5th at 1130. Could poke at the 1130 first for a 2pt hit or shoot 1-5 in order and get 1 point for the hit on 1130. Part of me thinks it should go back to the original.

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:
Oh....

Expect an inbound email on this today or tomorrow!!

If you're thinking what I think you're thinking, we need to talk. Carpool!

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:
Oh....

Expect an inbound email on this today or tomorrow!!

If you're thinking what I think you're thinking, we need to talk. Carpool!

If that is the thinking we definitely need to talk. Going back in September and have a special invite from Tom on lodging. We can discuss at next month's shoot. Here is a pic with no camera zoom that puts the distance in better perspective.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
jelrod1, cool you're going to shoot movers, lots of fun.

jelrod1 -- Movers are totally fun, although I was quite frustrated with them my first couple of times at Rifles Only, in Texas.

I shoot ambush method for targets 100 yards out and beyond. Inside 50 yards I track. From 50 to 100 yards I might do either method.

I hold for center of plate, as opposed to leading edge of plate as offgrid does. It's a combination of personal preference and (IMO) reticle. My Nightforce F1 MOA reticles have very nice vertical subtensions in 1 MOA increments. For ambush I've learned to focus on a specific lead value subtension (say 5 MOA) and that becomes my new mover crosshair. I put a little pressure on my single stage trigger, then break the shot exactly as the center of the plate lines up with the proper subtension (again, say 5 MOA).

As long as the wind value is less than my mover lead, I hold wind instead of dialing it. For example at T3 Ranch, my calculated lead is 6.2 MOA, which I round to 6 MOA. Last match the wind was a shockingly consistent 8 mph from the left, or 2 MOA for me. So when the mover went left to right I held 4 MOA lead, and I held 8 MOA lead when it went right to left. The other guy who cleaned the station dialed .7 mil of wind and held the same leads both left and right.

The one time I didn't hold wind at T3 was last fall, in uber nasty winds, when my wind hold was actually greater than my movement hold. I didn't think I could bounce from a negative 1 MOA lead in one direction to a positive 13 MOA lead in the other. I dialed 7 MOA of wind, which did pretty well until the wind backed off to about 5 MOA on the third pass. My third pass didn't go so well, but I corrected on the four pass with a little spotting assistance from offgrid.

I agree with offgrid that a few of the Utah shooters really struggled with their technique -- heads coming off stock, not cycling their bolts well. It's surprising that hit as many targets as they did.

The snipers hide video is from the T3 Ranch -- that's our match mover, at 530 yards. Frank was a Rifles Only instructor for a number of years, so his methods are quite similar to those from RO (aka Jacob Bynum). For that mover at T3 Ranch, I don't reposition my body between shots -- assuming one's other fundamentals are up to the task, the rifle movement is a small enough arc that I just line up with the center of the track. Like Frank, I only shoot three shots per pass on that track, even though I probably could get four shots off per pass. In our T3 matches, we have 4 passes to get 10 shots off. So we only need 2 or 3 shots per pass. That's actually plenty of time if we keep our heads on our stocks, eyes in our scopes, and cycle the bolts smoothly.

Interesting experiences fritz. I've only shot movers a couple times and these are really not meant for a bolt gun, but are still fun to shoot at. More suited, and geared towards a SAW and similar. The angles screw with you and the varying speed really screws with you. The 300 target is quite large for that distance and much easier. The 600 is the same size and gets more difficult. Do they tell you guys the mover speed or do you have to figure it out? If figuring out, which way do you use? Mils per second in a formula? Any handy dandy reference charts to cut down on the calculations? Guess I could do the math and make something up for my load/distance/mph and cosine the angle.

At Rifles Only we were told the mover's speed was that of a walking person -- roughly 3 mph. At my first T3 match, I wasn't told the speed of the mover, but it was hinted that it was around 3 mph. I have the tools to figure out speed, but just shooting to see if I was ahead or behind of the target seemed easier.

JBM includes mover calculations. For my gun at 530 yards, the 10 mph lead is 20.6 MOA. 30% of that figure (linear adjustment for 3 mph) results in 6.2 MOA.

Shot a match today that a guy hosts on his property about 2 hours away. 44 shooters, 4 events:

5 round group at 200 yards. Winner was 11/16". Second place was 13/16". Don't know what I shot, they didn't post all the groups. Looked about moa-ish through the glass.

2-man team event, random draw. Each guy gets 40 rounds. Each guy has 40 water bottles, placed every 10 yards from 100 to 500 yards. Take your shot, then spot your teammate, switch, continue. 80 minutes allowed. We shot 37 - I made it out to 370 yards before running out of ammo. Winners shot 60 water bottles. Second place was 59.

Steel challenge. 10 shots max, 5 targets at 182, 283, 397, 491, and 577. Shoot in order, can't move on until you hit. 2 points for first round hit, 1 point after. Max of 2 minutes. Wind was 10-12mph left to right. I dialed to the first target, and held both wind and elevation for the rest. Hit the first 4 on the first round. Missed the 5th, over corrected, missed again, then hit, for 9 points in 1:24. The winner cleaned it in 32 seconds. Second place cleaned it in 38.

The final event was a head-to-head double elimination bracket shoot. Targets were concrete Prairie dogs about 4" tall and 2" wide at 100 yards. Start standing, drop to prone on start command, first one to break 5 wins. I won two and lost two. Some very fast shooters there.


All rounds had to be fed one at a time, no feeding from a magazine. About 75% of the guys there had cans, and rifles varied from an as-purchased savage axis XP package with a bipod clamped onto the barrel to a bench rest rifle to a DTA and everything in between. Most of the guys were from the hide (it was advertised on there).

Afterwards was grilled chicken, baked beans, chips, salsa, guacamole, all sorts of good stuff, and a lot of beer.

Much fun was had. We are looking to do a similar shoot at a buddy's house, so it was good to go and check this one out.

exx1976,

sounds like a fun match!

On the steel challenge, I would have dial elevation on the 3rd target, especially if starting on target/bolt back.

The head to head is my kind of thing for sure. Buddies and I do stuff like that for fun, usually weakside. Another we'll put 5 rounds on the ground or a table 20ft or so behind us. Start 20ft back round in hand, run/shoot, run back get another round.....shoot a dot drill at 100yds, steel at distance....fun to get your heart racing.

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
exx1976,

sounds like a fun match!

On the steel challenge, I would have dial elevation on the 3rd target, especially if starting on target/bolt back.

The head to head is my kind of thing for sure. Buddies and I do stuff like that for fun, usually weakside. Another we'll put 5 rounds on the ground or a table 20ft or so behind us. Start 20ft back round in hand, run/shoot, run back get another round.....shoot a dot drill at 100yds, steel at distance....fun to get your heart racing.

Yeah.. For the steel challenge, I dialed magnification to 22x (where my reticle is correct), and held for targets 2-5. My misses on target 5 were actually elevation misses, not windage. Trying to add up 2.7, 3.9, 3.3, and 3.8 in my head REAL fast as I went didn't work out so well. After I shot, I went over to the guy that cleaned it in :38 and talked to him (he's one of the regulars in our group from the winter 420 shoots), and he said he dialed to target #3 and held under for the first 2, over for the last 2.

I kicked myself for not thinking of that.

Starting for the steel challenge was on your rifle, round chambered, bolt closed. You had your choice of prone or bench (all but two guys were prone). On "FIRE!" the clock began. Two firing stations, alternating participants from each. So while position 1 was shooting, the guy on position 2 had 2 minutes to get set up (The time allowed for position 1 to shoot). If you didn't get set up in time, well... I didn't see anyone that wasn't on their scope in time, so that was good. One guy had a fixed magnification SWFA something or another, and couldn't find the first target in time though. By the time he found it, he was already nearly a minute in, so he didn't finish well.

Dialing elevation is NONSENSE for a timed event like this. Of all the guys that dialed elevation, I could count the number who did and finished in under 2:00 on one hand. The trick was to dial elevation with the left hand while the right hand was grabbing the next round and working the bolt. There were multiple reasons I didn't like that idea, so I just decided to hold.

I can tell you this, though - if one more person asks what the numbers written in sharpie on my forearm are, I'm going to cry. LOL

It was a lot of fun, and I'm very glad we went. Like I mentioned, a buddy has a bunch of land and wants to hold a similar event, invite-only, limited to 20-24 shooters maybe. So we went to check it out. He didn't even shoot - we wanted the perspective of both participant, as well as logistics/rules/officiating/etc, so we flipped a coin. I lucked out and got to shoot. We both had an absolute blast though, and the party after was just awesome.

For me staying closer to the center of the reticle holding under/over is faster. A few guys I shoot with simply put a piece of masking tape on the arm/sleeve with dope, tear it off.... This thing is working out nicely for me, have it in my field of view w/o taking my cheek off the rifle.



Glad to share all kinds things my buddies and I do when we practice, what I've seen at matches.

That's pretty cool! Too bad you aren't coming to the Wisconsin shoot.. . I'm sure you, me, jlemmy, and entropy have lots of tips and tricks to share.

There's also a shoot this coming Saturday, the 25th:

Two sets of 10 steel targets, set at random distances from 150-400 yards.

Shooters have 5 minutes and 12 rounds to hit each set of targets.

Targets are 4" round steel.


Event 2 is 8 shots at 4 6x6" steel targets in 3 minutes.

Targets will be placed between 300 and 600 yards.

2 hits max per target, all hits are scored.


Both events are load one, shoot one - no mag feed.


Cost is $15, 100% payout. That one is again, about 1:45-2:00 away from me.

Oh - and I had a conversation with a guy yesterday at the match. He was obviously pretty new to the game (I consider myself new, but he was like just-bought-a-rifle-yesterday-new).

He was shooting a 700 in 308 with a 16.5" barrel and wanted to ask me about my dope (I was shooting a 700 with a 20" barrel in 308). I told him I was at about 2530fps and showed him my dope. He compared it to his (dunno why), said he was shooting 175gr FGMM, and asked me what I was shooting. When I told him Berger 185 Hybrids, his face just sank. Then he asked the "Ballistic Content". I told him the G1 Ballistic Coefficient was .569, and his face just fell further.

He said "I want to have a custom built using this action as the donor." "What caliber?" "6.5 Creedmoor." "Why did you choose that caliber?" "Because I don't reload, and I can buy factory ammo for that."

I didn't have the heart to wreck the poor guy any further. Some people will just never learn that the best bullets out there simply can't be purchased in factory loadings. As I walked away, my buddy began trying to convince him to reload. As was relayed to me after the fact, the guy felt that his money was better spent building a rifle than it was buying a press.

Whatever man... LOL

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
Some people will just never learn that the best bullets out there simply can't be purchased in factory loadings.

While it is true that Berger bullets (probably best out there) aren't part of factory ammo options, in some instances the Berger advantage is is pretty small. For example, take factory 6.5 Creedmoor, with 140 Amax.

At 1,000 yards in DA typical for eastern Colorado, I need 26.8 MOA elevation and 5.3 MOA wind (10 mph full value). Load a Berger 140 target hybrid (per Litz calculations in JBM) to the same MV and the elevation is 26.2 MOA and the wind 5.3 MOA. In the Colorado T3 steel match, the Berger advantage might come into play on one stage -- the one with 1100 to 1300 yard targets. For the other 9 stages, no real difference.

A carefully hand loaded Berger, tuned for a specific gun, will certainly be more accurate than Hornady factory loads. But it better be loaded by someone with some skilz. Even with my club-fisted trigger finger, my 6.5CM rifle lives up to its 3/8" accuracy guarantee. But I'm wrong -- it's not a 3/8" gun. Put real shooters behind it (like Jacob Bynum, Frank Galli, Tony Burke, Andrew Blugaugh) and I have seen it's a 3/16" gun with factory Hornady ammo.

Offgrid has so graciously noted that I don't miss targets in steel matches because of my ammo. It's because of the sheep-dip loose nut behind the butt.

Not even Berger - but there is also jlk.

And as you've noted, one of the biggest advantages to handloading is necessarily even those crazy good bullets, but rather the fact that the round is tuned to the rifle.

If your rifle does 3/16" with factory ammo, then part of me is jealous of that fact, but the rest of me also doesn't want to pay your ammo bill, since when you get into precision rifle reloading, the cost per round savings becomes much more than it does with just plinking.

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
If your rifle does 3/16" with factory ammo, then part of me is jealous of that fact, but the rest of me also doesn't want to pay your ammo bill, since when you get into precision rifle reloading, the cost per round savings becomes much more than it does with just plinking.

The guys I listed above all produced one-hole groups with it. Those who have also shot my .308, did the same -- with Hornady, Federal, and CorBon factory ammo. One day, perhaps, I may develop the skills to do the same. At least once.

There comes a point where ammo costs in hard dollars are less than the price I place on my time. Between the hours consumed by work, assisting aging parents, managing our extended family ranch, ski racing, and rock climbing, the last thing I have time for is ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:


He said "I want to have a custom built using this action as the donor." "What caliber?" "6.5 Creedmoor." "Why did you choose that caliber?" "Because I don't reload, and I can buy factory ammo for that."

I didn't have the heart to wreck the poor guy any further. Some people will just never learn that the best bullets out there simply can't be purchased in factory loadings. As I walked away, my buddy began trying to convince him to reload. As was relayed to me after the fact, the guy felt that his money was better spent building a rifle than it was buying a press.

Whatever man... LOL

Be careful with that. That guy might kick your butt at a match with his crappy factory ammo, he'll be the one saying whatever man....LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:


He said "I want to have a custom built using this action as the donor." "What caliber?" "6.5 Creedmoor." "Why did you choose that caliber?" "Because I don't reload, and I can buy factory ammo for that."

I didn't have the heart to wreck the poor guy any further. Some people will just never learn that the best bullets out there simply can't be purchased in factory loadings. As I walked away, my buddy began trying to convince him to reload. As was relayed to me after the fact, the guy felt that his money was better spent building a rifle than it was buying a press.

Whatever man... LOL

Be careful with that. That guy might kick your butt at a match with his crappy factory ammo, he'll be the one saying whatever man....LOL!

And that may well be, but if his performance Saturday was any indicator, he needs more trigger time before he needs to worry about anything else.

Pounded some T-post's in the ground Friday and set up a mini-range in the back yard with steel targets. Getting ready for several presision rifle matches this Year which have some pistol targets i.e. Snipers Hide Cup, WTRC, etc. So far I practiced some "Shoot and Scoot" sessions with the pistol, and found that one target, a full sized IPSC is just too easy, even at distance. I'll replace it today after the latest snow fall melts with an 8" plate. I'm also going to try to use the same targets with my 22-trainer off the deck practicing different positional methods. I'll paint orange dots on those targets with the intent of hitting the dot with the rifle. The far targets have 3/8" holes in them, and those holes are what I normally shoot at with my 22-trainer. It's challenging getting a 22LR through a 3/8" hole at 65-yards with ammo that's not always as consistent as hand loaded CF ammo. I have managed to get a few through the holes shooting off a tripod, now I need to practice shooting un-supported kneeling and standing.

Last weekend at TSRA, I did something different, something I had been working towards for some time and something that I really enjoyed and is the next step in my evolution as a competitor.

I assembled a team of 5 shooters and then, for the team match before the individuals, I called wind for 4 of them. This was our first outing as a team and we won. Our goal is to win the 2017 World F-Class 4-man team shooting competition in Ottawa.

I had been calling wind on and off at matches but this time it was the designated team members for 2017.

None of them had ever shot team before but I had spent quite a bit of time explaining the process beforehand. There was only one person who resisted a little bit, but once we got through several rounds it all clicked.

The conditions were somewhat tricky and we did have a few surprises but overall, we pulled off some great shots and everyone was ecstatic. It's a bit tiring on the wind coach, directing 160 rounds for score in one day, but it's great satisfaction when it works out.

Our plan is to shoot as many big matches as a team as possible in a work up to 2017. I'm sure I'll be seeing more surprises.