quote:

Originally posted by Baron Flynt:
With a 100yd zero, is a 9.5 MOA comeup typical for .223 out of a 16 inch barrel shooting 400yds?

The Winchester and Federal websites called for around 5.5 or 6 MOA. 9.5 seemed like a lot so I thought you guys would be the ones to ask if this is out of the ordinary.

I took a few shots at some paper 400yds away and it was low using the websites data but 9.5 brought it up onto the paper. 55gr Wolf Gold FMJ ammo, dialed in at +3.5 MOA at 300yd, for comparison.

My handloads, from a 20" rifle, need 8.9moa according to applied ballistics. I'm too lazy to go dig out my dope charts to see exactly how close that is, but it's typically within a click or three.

quote:

Originally posted by jlemmy:
Thanks, I'll bring it along next month

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:

Where did you get those red parts?

Link

Nice! And at $25 for the two of them, I'll bet that's cheaper than the stand I built anyway. Jeez. It sure breaks down nicer.

I think I'm going to order a bunch. After I check yours out next month, of course.

Just my .02 on truly portable stands.


This is an old shot of the FIRST design for our portable stands. 1/2" rebar. IIRC 4' legs and a 5' top piece to hang the tgt on.

Now we do slightly longer tubes on the brackets now 10" long and a 5/8" top piece at 4'. Less sag and spring to it.

This has worked very well. Easily transported on one side of the pickup, though Several sets start to get HEAVY . Only had one instance of a stand falling over and that was the old design. Multiple hits at the right moment can flex the legs out of the brackets. Why we went to longer bracket tubes.


FN in MT



Now we do

quote:

Originally posted by Baron Flynt:
Uriah & fritz,

Thanks very much for the info. I'll check my mount, scope and height over bore.

You are also working on the premise that your scope adjustments a reliable and consistent. When you put in many MOAs, not all scopes are created the same. You might want to do a box test. Also, are you sure that it's an MOA adjustment or is it an IPHY adjustment scope?

But you need the actual MV to start with, anything else is guesswork.

quote:

Originally posted by NikonUser:

quote:

Originally posted by Baron Flynt:
Uriah & fritz,

Thanks very much for the info. I'll check my mount, scope and height over bore.

You are also working on the premise that your scope adjustments a reliable and consistent. When you put in many MOAs, not all scopes are created the same. You might want to do a box test. Also, are you sure that it's an MOA adjustment or is it an IPHY adjustment scope?

But you need the actual MV to start with, anything else is guesswork.

The scope, 1-4x Nikon Monarch, is supposed to be half MOA adjustments. Maybe it's off. I'll go to the range tomorrow morning and do the box drill. Ammo manufacturer says 3250fps but I don't have access to a chrono to know for sure what it is out of my rifle.

That stated velocity is *probably* out of a 24" barrel, and probably not a gasser either.

If you look at HornadyLE, their 5.56/.223 55gr TAP loads out of a 16" AR are usually around the mid to high 2900's

Contingent on your height over bore, that would be your ballpark muzzle velocity if you're dialing 3.5 MOA at 300 yards, though 9.5 MOA would still be high.

Looks like your reticle doesn't have holds to compare with, so verify the numbers that you're able to, and as stated, run the box test.

A lot of variables, whether it be mechanical, shooter input, etc., that are exacerbated at distance.

quote:

Originally posted by Uriah:
That stated velocity is *probably* out of a 24" barrel, and probably not a gasser either.

If you look at HornadyLE, their 5.56/.223 55gr TAP loads out of a 16" AR are usually around the mid to high 2900's

Contingent on your height over bore, that would be your ballpark muzzle velocity if you're dialing 3.5 MOA at 300 yards, though 9.5 MOA would still be high.

Looks like your reticle doesn't have holds, so as you both stated, verify the numbers that you're able to, and run the box test.

A lot of variables, whether it be mechanical, shooter input, etc., that are exacerbated at distance.

I figured the velocity on the box was from a long barrel. If I adjust the velocity to 2,900 on the Federal website, this is what it spits out:

quote:

Load Number: AE223 Zero Range: 100 yd
Caliber: 223 Rem. Temperature: 59 °F
Bullet Style: Full Metal Jacket Boat-Tail Wind Speed: 0 mph
Bullet Weight: 55 gr Altitude: 0 feet
Ballistic Coeffcient: 0.269 Max Range: 500 yd
Muzzle Velocity: 2900 fps Test Barrel: 24 in
Sight Height: 3 in


Range (yd) Drop (in) Drop (MOA) Wind Drift (in) Wind Drift (MOA) Velocity
0 -3.0 - 0.0 - 2900
50 -0.9 -1.7 0.0 0.0 2727
100 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 2560
150 -0.4 -0.3 0.0 0.0 2399
200 -2.3 -1.1 0.0 0.0 2245
250 -6.0 -2.3 0.0 0.0 2096
300 -11.6 -3.7 0.0 0.0 1952
350 -19.5 -5.3 0.0 0.0 1815
400 -30.2 -7.2 0.0 0.0 1685
450 -43.9 -9.3 0.0 0.0 1563
500 -61.1 -11.7 0.0 0.0 1448

It's needing almost 9.5 MOA at 450yds out of their 24 inch barrel at 2900fps.

quote:

Originally posted by Baron Flynt:
The scope, 1-4x Nikon Monarch, is supposed to be half MOA adjustments. Maybe it's off. I'll go to the range tomorrow morning and do the box drill. Ammo manufacturer says 3250fps but I don't have access to a chrono to know for sure what it is out of my rifle.

The Monarch is a fine scope, I have a couple of Nikon Monarchs and they are absolutely great scopes. Of course you could have a defective one, but that's unlikely.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:
Just my .02 on truly portable stands.


This is an old shot of the FIRST design for our portable stands. 1/2" rebar. IIRC 4' legs and a 5' top piece to hang the tgt on.

Now we do slightly longer tubes on the brackets now 10" long and a 5/8" top piece at 4'. Less sag and spring to it.

This has worked very well. Easily transported on one side of the pickup, though Several sets start to get HEAVY . Only had one instance of a stand falling over and that was the old design. Multiple hits at the right moment can flex the legs out of the brackets. Why we went to longer bracket tubes.


FN in MT



Now we do

Yeah, I saw a stand like that last fall. Guy brought it to the club. Very nice. Where do you get the corner pieces? Rebar is easy enough to source..


Shot the last 420 of the season. Howling winds, but the group was my fault. When I broke them, I called one right, and one left. Sure enough... . 3.8-something" group. Only 1.75" vertical.

Winner was 1.7xx" iirc. They paid out 5 spots, and 5th was 2.5xx". 260s and 6mm variants cleaned it.


Won the 50/50 though, so there's that.

http://www.jcsteeltargets.com/

the corner pieces come in two sizes 1/2" and 3/4". The 3/4" holds my 24"x 30" steel plate well. IIRC the place is like a home for troubled boys and the money they make helps fund the ranch.

Here's the latest toy:
- AR-10 platform in 6.5 Creedmoor
- Black Rain Fallout 10 matched upper & lower, NorGuard finish
- Black Rain handguard
- Black Rain BCG, Nickel Boron
- Krieger barrel, 26 inches, 1/8 twist
- Magpul PRS stock
- Wilson Combat TTU trigger, single stage
- BCM gunfighter grip
- barrel threaded and capped
The gun shoots really, really well. Mongo like.

The AR is resting on my latest alternative position, courtesy of pine beetles and Stihl chainsaws. The stump is just at the right height to be a bit uncomfortable. I have steel targets from 214 to 488 yards visible from this stump. Its twin has options for steel from 245 to 513 yards.

Oh yeah, it's currently sporting a Nightforce Compact 2.5-10x, mainly because that scope isn't in use right now. Decent glass, but this rifle needs higher magnification and FFP reticle.

Very nice new toy fritz. I like the 26" Krieger barrel. What ammo have you tried? A buddy has the 22" JP version and the 140 Amax's are running a little hot but shoot well. All he's tried so far.

Hornady factory Amax 120 and 140. No issues with either round. I bought a few boxes of 120 awhile back, but once this last box is gone, I won't buy any more. Amax 140 works for me, and has less wind drift.

No pressure signs with either ammo. Spent cases flung three or four feet at 3-4 o'clock. Recoil feels slightly less than my 6.5 bolt gun. The only issue I have is with the sling attachment on the PRS stock -- it doesn't have a quick detach point and sources for adapters are a bit slim.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Hornady factory Amax 120 and 140. No issues with either round. I bought a few boxes of 120 awhile back, but once this last box is gone, I won't buy any more. Amax 140 works for me, and has less wind drift.

No pressure signs with either ammo. Spent cases flung three or four feet at 3-4 o'clock. Recoil feels slightly less than my 6.5 bolt gun. The only issue I have is with the sling attachment on the PRS stock -- it doesn't have a quick detach point and sources for adapters are a bit slim.

There's a guy on the hide that makes them...

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
http://www.jcsteeltargets.com/

the corner pieces come in two sizes 1/2" and 3/4". The 3/4" holds my 24"x 30" steel plate well. IIRC the place is like a home for troubled boys and the money they make helps fund the ranch.

Bought a few sets from JC, then built another two sets with heavier and longer tubes. Not the ultimate set up but compact, easy to source the rebar, and it works well enough.

quote:

Originally posted by FN in MT:

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
http://www.jcsteeltargets.com/

the corner pieces come in two sizes 1/2" and 3/4". The 3/4" holds my 24"x 30" steel plate well. IIRC the place is like a home for troubled boys and the money they make helps fund the ranch.

Bought a few sets from JC, then built another two sets with heavier and longer tubes. Not the ultimate set up but compact, easy to source the rebar, and it works well enough.

Schedule 40 PVC pipe with a cap glued on one end has worked well for me to store/haul rebar.

Fritz, That is a beautiful AR10. I have always toyed with the idea of building one myself.

Got the set screw collars and finished the rifle target today. Also picked up a junior ski bag to haul the target pipes in. Hung some self healing targets off the original wood frame to use as a rimfire target.

There's so many ways to go about managing DOPE at matches. I've tried all kinds of ways. These two are it.

Use the board for shooting prone, arm band when moving around from shot to shot.

The board is a piece of white and clear plastic with Neo magnets holding it together. I like that I can make it my own. Write on the clear as well as the back of the white with a grease pencil. Easy wipe off. Board has enough weight the wind doesn't blow it away. Like the fact I can just glance at it w/o disturbing my position.

The arm band is as simple as it gets. Elastic, Kydex, Velcro, laminated cards. Made 10 cards. Also use a grease pencil on them.

offgrid -- What did you think of the precision match? I just saw that the scores are posted. Ignoring the winner's score (he must have shown everyone how it's done), it looks like you were hitting a bunch of targets and pretty much in the hunt.

Ya, shot the PRS match in Albuquerque. Dirtiest/dustiest place I've shot, very short stage times/no time to dial on some of the stages (T3 stages would all be 45-60 seconds), small targets (lots of 1 MOA targets) and very challenging positions. Had a blast, learned a lot.

Been practicing hard for this match in the last 90 days, shot about 1500rds through my bolt rifles both practicing and shooting local belly matches and a ton of dry firing. Most of the practicing was shooting from make shift barricades/tripod and some unsupported standing/kneeling/sitting/prone and at each range session shot 50rds of pistol, learned I've should have been practicing pistol a lot more and differently. Shot my 6.5x47. At around 1700rds on the barrel switched from the 130VLD's to the 140VLD's because the throat has moved quite a bit. 140VLD's hammer.

With check list in hand packed my stuff up Thursday night. Up at 4:00 before the alarm went off, headed out at 5:45 for the 8 hr drive. Drive went quick, buddy and I talking all things LR shooting. Get to the range, we are definetly a little wound up. Plop down prone and do a bunch of dry firing to settle myself down on the sight-in range. Shot 3rds at 100yds, stacked all 3 shots, ran through the steel targets out to 760yds, switchy winds, thicker mirage then what I usually shoot in. One big difference shooting in the sandy NM soil, dirt splashes from the misses were more of big explosion, making it tough to pin point/measure misses. Shot 30rds well enough. We register and are handed the match booklet describing all the stages, distances, points.... We went over all the stages that night, lots of "Oh crap" how we going to get our shots off in those positions in those times? Using trusty JBM, marked up my booklet with the dope for each stage.

Shooters meeting in the morning I'm surrounded by lots of "jerseys". Jerseys with names of the shooters on the back, Team GAP, Team 3rd Generation, Team........ Recognized several of the names, this guy won that match, this guy won..... Have to admit it was little intimidating. First stage 60 seconds, 3 positions, same 4 targets. I was the last shooter on our squad of 11, watched experienced PRS shooters not get to the last position or just get off one or two shots. OK, I'll just have a single loaded 10rd mag. Hit all targets at the first two positions, get to the 3rd, miss/miss. Out of ammo get up, RO told me I had 7 seconds left. I don't know if I could have swapped mags and got off one or two more shots and hits? Lesson learned, don't let what others do on a stage influence my decisions. Through out the rest of the match had some good stages/cleaned a few and had two bad out of 21. Worst stage was a heavily weighted pistol stage. Did very well on the few prone only stages, last 4yrs of me shooting belly matches showed. One of those stages, start standing, mag in, bolt open, plop down prone, 3 targets, 3 shots each, 390yds, 60 seconds. Two targets had penalty plates around them for a -1 if hit somewhat like a hostage. Hit 8/9 w/o penalty in 42 seconds, shooting at the first target while it's still swinging from impact. The tie-breaker shot was fun. Laying prone, mag in, bolt back, on target, 350yds, 60% IPSC target. Beep, close bolt shoot. I was the 2nd fastest in our squad at 1.5 second hit another guy in our squad hit at 1.4. Fastest guy in the match, 1.1 seconds, damn that's fast.

Over all happy how I shot my rifle, pistol needs some work. Finished 25 of 80. Winner 131 of 188 possible points, I got 75% of the points he did. Getting back to those "jerseys", have to admit felt good about beating some of those guys who have shot many of these matches and won Drive back home buddy and I went over each stage and talked about what we did right/wrong and where we need to improve/practice. I plan on squeezing in a IDPA pistol match before the SnipersHide Cup. Taking what I learned from this match can't wait to shoot another... Registered this morning for the Utah PRS match in June, hope I get in.

fritz, congrats on your 3rd place finish at the last T3 match!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: offgrid,