...from a practical shooting position? Bipod and rear bag, tripod, etc.

...and with a practical rifle (subjective, I know). Not an overly-heavy "target" build, or one with performance attributes that might compromise reliability in adverse circumstances.

If you have achieved this level of performance, please share details about the shooting position and the rifle.

I'd like to limit responses to folks who have proved this level of performance on paper (or clean steel). You don't need to share any images. Multiple smaller groups across multiple aiming points in the same overall string are the same as a ten round "group".

I’ll test it this weekend. Any maximum time between shots?

quote:

Any maximum time between shots?

Nothing extreme. Ten seconds, I suppose.

I have a cheapo MTM rifle rest and shooting my box stock Ruger AR off the rest and a shooting bench will let me get a group like the KSGM refers to. Although I might not be able to do it consistently in ten seconds.
I used to sweat out getting small groups with an AR, mainly through better scopes, mounts, triggers and ammo.
But I felt it served no practical purpose, given the ARs role as a defensive rifle. So I set out to make my own AR accuracy standard. Which is:
Hit a six-inch diameter target, from any position (supported or unsupported) using a good LVPO out to 250 yards.
Which I can, most of the time. My next project is to improve the sights on my late production Mini 14 so I can meet this same standard. That might take some effort!
I will be curious to see how our other shooters do with this challenge.

quote:

Although I might not be able to do it consistently in ten seconds.

No more than ten seconds between each shot. Not ten shots in ten seconds.

Ah, I misread that. Sorry!

I'll give it a try next time I get out to the range. I kinda doubt it, but that's more a commentary on my abilities than the gun.

2"? Yeah I'm pretty sure. That will be fun to do this weekend f the weather cooperates.

My test today.

I fired two 10-round groups with my Wilson Combat Protector S. The scope is a 1-6× SAI. I shot from a somewhat rickety folding table using an Atlas bipod at the front, and my usual rear support which consists of a folding Atlas “foregrip” and wedge bag. The foregrip that’s serving as a rear monopod, the bag, and the bipod are what I consider to be a “field deployable” setup. The monopod is attached to the rifle stock and the bipod can be carried mounted as well. I have a somewhat smaller wedge bag that can be carried in a cargo pants leg pouch.

I did change the original stock of the rifle to a Magpul PRS Lite model to permit a bit of cheek rise.

The group on the left was fired with Berger 77 grain OTM Tactical ammunition and the one on the right with IMI 77 grain HPBT-Match. What I believe was the same IMI ammunition used to be called the OTM LR Mod 1 load, but perhaps there is some difference.








I consider the Berger load to be higher quality than the IMI, but its group measured 1.876 inch center to center whereas the IMI group was 1.485" CTC. I believe I did better with the IMI because I settled down more after firing the Berger group. From my JP Enterprises rifle and a better rest the Berger typically produces groups measuring well under 1 minute of angle. As the Berger group shows I had trouble damping down the lateral movement that caused the horizontal stringing. The IMI group would have been very respectable without the two sort-of outliers. I don’t know if they were due to me or the ammunition, but probably me.

At the range I forgot that the original question here specified groups at 100 meters, and I fired mine today at 100 yards. The groups could therefore legitimately be enlarged by about 1.09. If multiplied by that figure the Berger group would measure right at 2 inches and the IMI group ~1.6".

The prone position and I do not get along well these days, otherwise I believe the groups would have been even better. I keep thinking I should try the services of a massage therapist to see if it would help my back and neck.

Edited: spelling.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sigfreund,

I have a 16" mid-gas Larue that comes damn close with M193(when I'm lucky), I think If I zeroed it in with match ammo I could get there comfortably.

It's a PredatAR barrel profile "ultimate upper" they sold for a while around 8 years ago. Scope is an SWFA 6x42, which tracks really well. I put a Magpul bipod on it, which works pretty well for being light and plasticky.

I use a Rugged Radiant suppressor on it which does tighten the groups a bit.

I was just using it to kill prairie dogs this time last week at a friend's farm. Those little shits will stretch the range of your setup, no matter how good you are.

I did it all the time with an M-16A1 with M193 ammo. It was more difficult to pull off with the A2 and M855 because of the steel penetrator not being completely centered in each round. Ammo plays a big part in all this, and match grade ammo will certainly help.

yes, in the past,

A2, SGW heavy barrel ( not as heavy as an HBAR, but heavier than stock) floated handguard, Jewel trigger, A1 fixed rear stock, A2 rear sight with NM innards


rifle was weighted in the rear, otherwise not really any different that what is commonly available now,

rifle is weighted in the rear, I was much younger, with better skills (they truly are perishable) and and better eyes,

only caveat is I was slung up and in a jacket, sitting or prone, 10 shots in (60 seconds, sitting, start from standing) or (70 seconds, prone, start from standing)

never got a clean, back then but less than 2 inches in that time frame was common, (but not always, I was just a lowly expert)


prone, 10 shots, 10 minutes, same rifle, slung up the same way, and fairly easy



been partly back in the game after a too long period of not shooting, and have been struggling at getting even close to 2 inches supported,

scopes now, but I will get better, time and practice (and getting body parts to move) permitting

Well done, sigfreund.

I didn't realize more folks had replied to this thread. Very cool.

I was motivated by the replies to execute my own group. I didn't create anything impressive.

2.75" spread over 94 seconds. First shot was 24 seconds in though, so my splits were actually tighter than they needed to be.

My position was a bit sketchy, which caused that lag before the first shot. Bipod and two rear bags stacked on top of each other, with my gut rested on a tabletop, and my legs standing with a wide stance.

The trigger also didn't help, as it's an inconsistent GI type. Sometimes it feels heavy and stagey; other times it's just heavy. I need to put my Wilson trigger into this lower.

So, if I address my three excuses, I'll have a better result (hopefully sub 2").

-Position (prone would be preferred)
-Trigger
-Cadence (slow it down a bit)

Ammo is 73gr FTX Critical Defense. Rifle has a FN button rifled, chrome lined barrel. Optic is a Leupold VX3HD at 14x.