I’ve got an an AR but can’t say that I’m really a fan of the platform, for me, I’m more inclined to go with a Ruger Ranch in .223 or 556 or my Henry side gate lever action in .357 or older Marlin 336 in 30-30. I appreciate the AR for what it is but too old school to want to adapt to a different platform than what I grew up on have been shooting for a long time.

The B&T APC223 is a great choice.

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
Ak's I guess.

This my thought as well. 30 rd mags, effective chamberings available (including 5.56), semi auto, reliable, ammo available, can suppress, can run optic.

AUGGIE!!



I can even reconfigure it to accept AR mags.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

I wish you would stop posting that picture. I might dip into my retirement account and buy a few.

Most likely my Tavor.

quote:

Originally posted by 400m:
I didn’t post the question from a standpoint of a ban on AR’s, I was thinking more along the lines of ‘If the M16 had never been invented’. I should have been more clear. My fault.
It was just to see what most people’s interest would be without AR’s and clones.

I instantly thought the SIG 55X, but then thought the silhouette was too similar to the AR for it to be an option, it would be my first choice, but from your clarification, it works .. actually the 55X edged out the AR as my perfect long gun back in ‘07(?) when I got my first 556, and ignited my interest in the earlier and Swiss made model.

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:
An H&K 53 doesn't look like an AR.

I really like my HK53 clone and AUG, but the heavy-ish single stage triggers eliminates them from my “always grab” category.

Bolt action precision would be my first alternative, maybe even first choice anyway.

M1A
AK47
700 308

Are my next go tos.

quote:

Originally posted by Tailhook 84:
Remington 7615. Pump action .223/5.56 that uses standard AR mags. All the firepower of an AR with the looks of a Rem 870 pump. It's one of my Grail Guns I wish I'd bought before they became scarce and pricey.

We T&E’d a couple of those back in the day. Truly pieces of shit.

Yep.

Most of the drawbacks of a pump shotgun, along with only one of the advantages of an AR (magazine compatibility).

It was intended to be marketed to old-school-minded police administrators in the mid-2000s who wanted patrol rifles but also wanted the familiarity of the trusty pump shotgun rather than bothering to properly train their guys to use a real rifle. Or who didn't trust their guys with "assault rifles".

As it turns out, agencies like that are few and far between, plus they were significantly more expensive than actual ARs, so sales were abysmal.



These days, if you want a manually operated .223 rifle that takes AR mags, there are better bolt action options available like the Mossberg MVP or Ruger American.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Yep.

Most of the drawbacks of a pump shotgun, along with only one of the advantages of an AR (magazine compatibility).

It was intended to be marketed to old-school-minded police administrators in the mid-2000s who wanted patrol rifles but also wanted the familiarity of the trusty pump shotgun rather than bothering to properly train their guys to use a real rifle. Or who didn't trust their guys with "assault rifles".

As it turns out, agencies like that are few and far between, plus they were significantly more expensive than actual ARs, so sales were abysmal.



These days, if you want a manually operated .223 rifle that takes AR mags, there are better bolt action options available like the Mossberg MVP or Ruger American.

IIRC, Troy also tried to promote a similar type of system with the same results.

In no particular order: M1A, Mini-30, AUG (but it would need a Ratworx sear to fix the trigger), some AK variant, Tikka T3x Arctic, FN FAL (16").

Mini 14 Ranch Rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Legal Beagle:

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Yep.

Most of the drawbacks of a pump shotgun, along with only one of the advantages of an AR (magazine compatibility).

It was intended to be marketed to old-school-minded police administrators in the mid-2000s who wanted patrol rifles but also wanted the familiarity of the trusty pump shotgun rather than bothering to properly train their guys to use a real rifle. Or who didn't trust their guys with "assault rifles".

As it turns out, agencies like that are few and far between, plus they were significantly more expensive than actual ARs, so sales were abysmal.



These days, if you want a manually operated .223 rifle that takes AR mags, there are better bolt action options available like the Mossberg MVP or Ruger American.

IIRC, Troy also tried to promote a similar type of system with the same results.

In no particular order: M1A, Mini-30, AUG (but it would need a Ratworx sear to fix the trigger), some AK variant, Tikka T3x Arctic, FN FAL (16").

You talking about the pump action AR Troy put out? As a Californian I thought hey that might be a cool idea, but as lame as our featureless ARs are, they can still be very handy rifles once you’re used to them. I’d take a featureless rifle over a pump action or lever action any day!

quote:

If you couldn’t have an AR…

Pointy stick with nasty dog poo slathered on the end.

Or a pencil...

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Orndorff:

quote:

Originally posted by Tailhook 84:
Remington 7615.

We T&E’d a couple of those back in the day. Truly pieces of shit.

Damn Chris. You simultaneously crushed my dream and saved me a bunch of money.

Thanks!

Glad to help

I was very late to the AR fad, not because I couldn't have one, but because I just didn't like the AR or it's cartridge

Initially I owned and competed with a Garand, but then I stumbled onto a Beretta BM62. Unfortunately I was young at the time and ended up selling it because I needed money. At the time I was unaware as to how rare this rifle actually was. I truthfully regret that event having occurred. This was a fantastic rifle, basically a magazine fed Garand chambered for 7.62, but with a shorter barrel than the Grand

After that I had an HK41 for awhile. Because of the scarcity of this rifle, one day I was offered an absurd amount of money for mine and I took it

This turned out to be a very good event because I was able to add just a few dollars to it and acquire a select fire G3K



In addition to the ten factory original 20 round magazines (steel and aluminium) that came with the rifle, it also included four of the factory 30 round magazines. I
have since added one of the 50 round drums just to own because the price is truly exorbitant on them and having a handful of 20s is much more economical not to mention lighter when they're in the rifle

With so many governments in Europe and South America shifting away from the G3 platform to various rifles that fire the 5.56 cartridge surplus magazines were incredibly cheap. One of the big closeout companies was selling cases of 50 of the 20 round aluminum magazines for $0.97 a magazine. A few were heavily used, many were slightly used and a few were actually still brand new. Ended up buying two cases and still have tons of available magazines to me

One of the super cool things about the G3 platform as well as its many civilian variants is that the factory produced a sub caliber kit that allowed the rifle to utilize 22 Long Rifle ammunition and still be select fire



For more precision shooting and possibly including longer ranges I have a pair of the original Remington 700 PSS rifles that were produced in the early 1990s. These were made when Remington was still shipping them with the exceptionally fine McMillan stock. One is chambered for 5.56 while the other is chambered for 7.62

For shorter range precision shooting in an urban environment we built this integrally suppressed 300 blackout rifle quite a few years back. It shoots sub MOA groups and is extremely quiet



For very long range I have a bolt action rifle chambered for the 50 BMG cartridge that I acquired about 25 years ago



In the last decade perhaps, I have added multiple AR style rifles just because it seemed like something that needed to be in a well rounded collection. Naturally I have one chambered for the 5.56 cartridge but I also have one that fires golf balls. Yes I said golf balls and they can reasonably hit AB27 size target and 100 yards on a very regular basis. I acquired it just because it seemed like it would be fun to shoot, and it is

I have also added a couple of AR style rifles chambered for the 350 Legend cartridge as well as the 300 Blackout cartridge. The 300 is equipped with a suppressor but I do not have pictures of it yet

quote:

Originally posted by 400m:
I didn’t post the question from a standpoint of a ban on AR’s, I was thinking more along the lines of ‘If the M16 had never been invented’. I should have been more clear. My fault.
It was just to see what most people’s interest would be without AR’s and clones.

If the AR had never been invented, it would have been invented at some point. If the STG 44 had never been invented...

I think to properly answer the question, one would pick something in the same class. An AUG is a good choice.

But, "If you couldn't have an AR because it wasn't invented" is just short circuiting the history of arms development. Someone was going to develop a cartridge like 5.56..

If the AR didn't exist, it still would, it just would be called something else.

quote:

Originally posted by 400m:
I didn’t post the question from a standpoint of a ban on AR’s, I was thinking more along the lines of ‘If the M16 had never been invented’. I should have been more clear. My fault.
It was just to see what most people’s interest would be without AR’s and clones.

Well a ban on AR purchases and similar rifles IS the reality here in WA. So pretty much all of the semi-autos cited in the thread so far are now verboten for sale, transfer and purchase. If I didn't already own such rifles (grandfathered), then your thread title is very much that sad state of affairs in this wretched PNW state. From my vantage point, there's little use in "punishing" myself with unobtainium woulda-coulda options. But if I lived say in Idaho, I wouldn't mind ponying up for a legacy/legendary/just plain OLD SIG SG550 or a B&T APC223 if I were going to be 21st-century modern. Merely hypothetical musings of course.

SIG SG550

B&T APC223

So for back to reality grins and giggles, the direction I would go here in this walled commie evergreen garden for a legal (for now) .223/5.56 alternate is a Henry Long Ranger. And for total sacrilege, also wait for the Bond Arms Lever "AR-15" Tactical to become an actual, real production thing. I've got plenty of grandfathered AR mags just a-waiting. However I would probably insist that Bond change the name since anything carrying the "AR-15" name are insinuated as being part of the state rifle ban, even though a real AR is functionally nothing like a lever gun.

Henry Long Ranger

Bond .223/5.56 Lever