Looks interesting. It looks like a conglomeration of a few different guns. I agree a carbine would be awesome.

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As for the stock... I think the OEM is like a mashup of the Scorpion and Bren 2 stock, but uglier.

It's definitely ugly, but I'm still intrigued by the design. I couldn't tell from the video...is that a steel channel in the receiver that the rollers ride in? I can't imagine they'd make that out of aluminum...

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Originally posted by 92fstech:
I couldn't tell from the video...is that a steel channel in the receiver that the rollers ride in? I can't imagine they'd make that out of aluminum...

That's definitely a good question. The feed ramp being replaceable is something they seemed to have learned from Grand Power's issues with the Stribog. Supposed, there are people with super high round counts wearing out the receiver on the Stribog because the recess for the roller pin is just part of the machined aluminum upper. Supposedly the roller pin rounds off the shoulders and starts to chew up the channel. I'm only seeing one GunTuber claiming this, though, and he's a guy who Nexus Evo gave a free gun to for him to review. I called him out on this, and he gave a lengthy reply to me on Reddit, basically insinuating that he had tens and tens of thousands of rounds through his and that he sees no way this doesn't happen at high enough round counts. I'm unconvinced. I think that if it's actually an issue, by the time it's a problem for me, a fix will have been figured out. The GunTuber said Grand Power offered him another A3, which he took, and supposedly that one developed problems as well, whereupon they offered him another one, and he asked for an A1 instead.

I'm... skeptical. He never said a word about it until he made a video championing his new free Nexus Evo, which he could not say enough good about. Similar tone to the video he made about the A3, which partly sold me on it. He did the same shit with the Scorpion as well. I decided if he was going to simply make a rave review video about every new gun and not talk about problems as they crop up, then dump on the prior gun whenever a new hotness shows up, that I'm not sure I'm going to pay him any mind.

If the Kuna has a steel channel there, or a machined steel insert of some kind, this will be another thing where they looked at a problem, or potential failing of the Stribog, and made an improvement. I'll have to see if I can find out more about this.

Another issue with the Stribog is that I'm seeing reports of some guys having roller pins split in half, lengthwise. Obviously, this renders the gun totally non-functional. The pins are hollow. I have a machinist friend in my shooting group I've been thinking about asking if he'd make me a couple of spares in some sort of solid machined steel. If steel on aluminum is actually a problem, I also wonder if there's another material that might work better instead. HS Produkt appears to have put a lot of thought into this.

I'm having thoughts of a .45 (Ian mentions that the maker is looking at 10mm and .45 as possible offerings) and the Euro-market 12" barrel would make a very handy home defense carbine.

As would the other calibers. Quite interesting product.

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Originally posted by RogueJSK:

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Originally posted by Dwill104:
Regarding a 16” carbine, that may be a pipe dream as long as 922r is out there. Importing pistols is one thing because 922r doesn’t apply. Importing, or making, a 16” rifle means making a number of U.S. replacement parts to get the imported parts count to 10 or below. I don’t see SA doing that.

SA does exactly that with the imported Hellion rifles... The muzzle device, grip, piston, magazine, magwell, and trigger components are all US parts.

So why couldn't/wouldn't they also do this to import a Kuna carbine?

The Hellion already existed as a rifle/carbine. Also, for 922r, SA got 3 easy U.S. parts by simply throwing in a PMag. Plus, it’s likely the NATO magwell had already been developed by HSProdukt to offer to military users that used AR mags. The Kuna has none of this. It only is designed and exists as a subgun with a 6 or 6 1/2” barrel, so most things necessary to make a 16” carbine that can be imported or sold in the U.S. would have to be developed. About the only U.S. components readily available are the grip and muzzle device, although they could just skip the muzzle device by either using the 3 lug barrel or not adding a muzzle device at all.

The other factor is whether it’s worth the cost and effort to also have a carbine. CZ did do both carbines (some US parts) and pistols (no U.S. parts) for a while, but when’s the last time people bought a new Scorpion carbine? Do they even make the Scorpion carbine any more? With braces being essentially free stocks and eforms making SBRs quick, how well would a 16” Kuna made for only the U.S. market sell?

Could they? Yes. Would they? I don’t see it happening personally.

They still sell 16” Scorpions, people still buy them. Some people don’t want the legal grey area of the braced pistol thing (still not permanently decided on a federal level afaik, and the ATF is no longer enforcing their brace rule, but they’re still going after people saying they’re simply enforcing the NFA). Also, if you live somewhere that a handgun is a pain to buy, but a rifle isn’t, there’s that. They’re also popular with the USPSA PCC gun game crowd, evidenced by Sig’s 16” MPX in their Shoot Sig program, and the Grand Power 16” Stribog. I think they’re silly, but 16” PCC’s aren’t going away any time soon.

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Originally posted by 12131:
PSA had it yesterday for $1100, and it was gone quickly.

Was that the actual sale price? I checked Wikiarms and everyone is down around $900.

https://grabagun.com/springfie...vad=211021_a410e84f9

There’s a coupon code that supposedly takes $30 off this price. $869 is what I paid for my SP9A3 last year. They’re definitely looking to chop Grand Power off at the knees. CZ, too. I don’t see how or why anyone would buy a new Scorpion instead of one of these.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
They still sell 16” Scorpions, people still buy them. Some people don’t want the legal grey area of the braced pistol thing (still not permanently decided on a federal level afaik, and the ATF is no longer enforcing their brace rule, but they’re still going after people saying they’re simply enforcing the NFA). Also, if you live somewhere that a handgun is a pain to buy, but a rifle isn’t, there’s that. They’re also popular with the USPSA PCC gun game crowd, evidenced by Sig’s 16” MPX in their Shoot Sig program, and the Grand Power 16” Stribog. I think they’re silly, but 16” PCC’s aren’t going away any time soon.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t see a 16” Kuna down the road for the reasons that stated.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
PSA had it yesterday for $1100, and it was gone quickly.

Was that the actual sale price? I checked Wikiarms and everyone is down around $900.

https://grabagun.com/springfie...vad=211021_a410e84f9

There’s a coupon code that supposedly takes $30 off this price. $869 is what I paid for my SP9A3 last year. They’re definitely looking to chop Grand Power off at the knees. CZ, too. I don’t see how or why anyone would buy a new Scorpion instead of one of these.

Likely $1100 was for the one with the $160 Strike Industries single folding brace included. What you linked was the price for the one without the brace, which is cheaper. That said, $1100 is a little high for that version. It’s a little less than MSRP, but I’ve seen other places that have the brace version for $999.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t see a 16” Kuna down the road for the reasons that stated.

I’m not sure we do disagree, though. I would actually be surprised to see a 16” version of this gun, despite the demand I think exists. I still think a 16” 9mm PCC is silly.

$1,100 for the braced version makes more sense, but yeah, still a little high.

Watching videos or the disassembly, the buttplate works identical to the Stribog. I wonder if the dimensions differ, or if one would drop right in.

It’ll be real interesting to see whether and how much the aftermarket community supports this gun. They outright made the Scorpion what it is/was domestically.

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t see a 16” Kuna down the road for the reasons that stated.

I’m not sure we do disagree, though. I would actually be surprised to see a 16” version of this gun, despite the demand I think exists. I still think a 16” 9mm PCC is silly.

$1,100 for the braced version makes more sense, but yeah, still a little high.

Watching videos or the disassembly, the buttplate works identical to the Stribog. I wonder if the dimensions differ, or if one would drop right in.

It’ll be real interesting to see whether and how much the aftermarket community supports this gun. They outright made the Scorpion what it is/was domestically.

If it turns out to be reliable as the influencer videos seem to make it, it will probably be popular enough for aftermarket support. Wouldn’t be surprised if HBI is already looking at stuff for it. I hope at least for some decent stock options that look close to the OEM stock, if we can’t get one, and a safety delete.

I just got a tracking number for the one I ordered, so should have it in hand in a couple of days. I’ll check the stock adapter against my Stribog, but I’ll be very surprised if they are the same dimensionally.

Awesome! I look forward to your impressions of it.

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I just got a tracking number for the one I ordered, so should have it in hand in a couple of days. I’ll check the stock adapter against my Stribog, but I’ll be very surprised if they are the same dimensionally.

Very cool! Please post a review when you get it!

I got one before they were released , its been flawless . I wanted some extra mags and called springfield about getting some but was told they didn`t have them yet and they wanted to know how I had a Kuna already , I just told them the shop had it and I was able to buy it , I have run a few hundred rds and no problems with any ammo I shot .

Sounds like the shop violated their dealer agreement lol.

Have you shot it suppressed?

Arrived earlier than I expected. Nice and light, although I can’t compare it directly to my Bog since it’s a 45 and heavier. A couple of answers so far.From a width perspective, the rear of the Kuna is slightly wider than the Bog, so a Bog stock/brace adapter almost fits. However, it’s taller than the Bog, so the hole for the rear lower pin is lower on the Kuna. Also, the Kuna adapter has side holes in the top as recesses for the QD sockets in the top of the receiver. So no, you can’t just use a stock or adapter made for a Stribog.

Regarding the roller lock section of the internal rail, it is steel. It’s a part of the barrel trunnion (part #2 labeled Barrel Carrier in the schematic on page 14 of the manual), which is a separate insert into the aluminum receiver.

https://s3.us-east-2.amazonaws...206de5c9e986a1d2.pdf

Other initial observations are that the trigger isn’t bad, fairly light, but the safety is a bit stiff. The opposite safely lever seems high enough to not dig into the top of my hand, so may not need a safety delete. Flip up sights are lower than AR cowitness height. Only nit so far is that magwell seems a little tight for fast insertion. The magwell is flared, but a little fumbling needed to get the mag all the way up. Empty mag does drop free, though. Mags seem good. Stiff and thick polymer with metal feed lips.

Well, shit. It sounds like they took a real long, good look at the Stribog and decided to improve everything they reasonably could. Basically, everything between the feed ramp and the locking block is beefed up, reinforced, or replaceable in some fashion.

They’re going to eat Grand Power’s lunch.

I’m going to buy/order one of these this weekend. Have never had a subgun/PCC before but this seems like an affordable way to try it out. Ordered a red dot and light for it last night as well as a case of 147 gr subsonic ammo. I’m 95% sure my LGS/range has a Huxwrx Flow 9k Ti and I’ll see how long they expect it would take for them to order the Kuna (or I’ll buy on off gunbroker).

A Scorpion has been on my wishlist for years, under $1k this could take its place.

Thanks for the quick rundown, Dwill

I am eyeballing these very much. I have a couple 9mm PCCs already so not ready to dive in just yet.
10mm comes to be then pretty much will be a go.