So I am fully in the arms race so to speak and have two handguns after 40 years. I have decided to stock up before.... well you know. So I have always bought quality things. I really am not sure with the AR thing. I don't mind spending money on quality but don't wan to waste it. So I am considering a Christensen ARM CA15 and debating to spend a little more for the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel. I will be using it for HD, range and maybe competition. Its about 1900.00 and want to ask if this is a smart move or what options are better and I wouldn't mind saving money in the process. I KNOW if I bought an entry level gun, I would end up upgrading it and probably spend the same amount over time so there is that too. Thanks for understanding that I am a novice at this and the last "AR" I shot was an M16 many years ago.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: NapoleonSolo,

no need to spend $1,900 on an AR

but in the end ... get what you want -- not what a bunch of guys on the internet say

but remember -- you still need to buy ammo, mags, probably an optic at some point, more ammo, etc

the 'platform' nature of the AR really got out of control for awhile -- it doesn't have to be expensive / complicated to get a good reliable shooter

enjoy !

----------------------

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sig209,

I have 3 CF wrapped bbls.

I would say that the one I have for an AR is probably the least bang-for-buck. None of my bbls are Christensen arms (they are ABS, or what is now Proof Research).

If I had to spend spend $1900 on a factory gun, I would get a Daniel Defense M4V7, or save a little more and buy an LMT MLC or something from LWRC. Or save a lot more and get something from Knight's Armament Corporation (KAC).

With the Christensen AR, IMO, all you're getting for the extra money is the bbl. And you can buy the bbl separately, later and install it in your DI rifle if that's what you want.

Many of the features in high end rifles like KAC, LWRC, and LMT are in the lower. The lower is non-negotiable, in that if you buy a rifle with a standard lower, or a lower that may be cosmetically enhanced, but doesn't have built-in ambi controls, you cannot add those features later.

Yes, you can get around them by adding BAD levers and such, but you can't turn a standard forged Anderson lower into an LMT MARS lower. And if you're adding BAD levers and such, then you might as well start out with a standard cheap forged lower.

Now, whether those features are worth the money to you is a different matter. But since you've saved up that much already, I'd try to make sure you get what you're paying for.

Buy what you want, but that's my $.02.

Everything Christensen Arms sells is overpriced. Why anyone would want a carbon wrapped barrel on anything is way beyond me, but especially an AR.

quote:

f I had to spend spend $1900 on a factory gun, I would get a Daniel Defense M4V7, or save a little more and buy an LMT MLC or something from LWRC. Or save a lot more and get something from Knight's Armament Corporation (KAC).

What about Barrett or Noveske? what is your thought's on those two? why DD over them?

I have a couple Christensen arms rifles. One was great OTB and the other had a bad barrel which Christensen replaced. I haven't had one of their AR-15's but I think I would look elsewhere.

If I were in your position I would take a serious look at the LWRC DI guns. They are VERY nice and can be had for $1500ish, leaving you room to add a Geisselle trigger and still be in cheaper than the Christensen. I'd have to agree with LDD says on the Carbon Fibre barrel in an AR. I see them more as a hunting rifle thing to lower weight, other performance criteria are more important in an AR type weapon.

LMT MRP's are Super Nice and offer quick barrel changeout's but they are a couple hundred more expensive.

Knight's are indeed very nice but I think you end up paying an extra premium over even a LMT or LWRC just for the name. I sold the three Knights I had and still have a LWRC and LMT's.

I haven't run a Daniel Defense but they look nice.

Seekins makes nice stuff and his AR probably is too but in an AR I'd rather have a LMT or LWRC.

Just my 2 cents but I have owned and shot several of the AR's mentioned. FWIW the LWRC DI gun is my current home defense AR............ DJ

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin101:

quote:

f I had to spend spend $1900 on a factory gun, I would get a Daniel Defense M4V7, or save a little more and buy an LMT MLC or something from LWRC. Or save a lot more and get something from Knight's Armament Corporation (KAC).

What about Barrett or Noveske? what is your thought's on those two? why DD over them?

Barrett is worth considering too.

Novseke, like DD used to be all in the barrel (though the bbls that Noveske got famous on were stainless, not CHF carbon steel as DDs are).

But Noveske as a brand, never recovered from John's death. It's not that John personally inspected each rifle. In fact, there was anecdotal evidence that Noveske was starting to lose steam before died. But I've personally seen post-John Noveske barrels that did not meet the standard set by their predecessors. Noveske fell behind for two key reasons: their quality dropped, and they stopped innovating.

Ultimately, it comes down to breaking the rifle apart into its constituent features, and asking yourself "would I pay more for that?" Some of those features are objectively measurable. For example, would you pay $1100 for a bog stock Colt 6920? With the 6920, most of the markup over a rifle of identical configuration that you could build yourself is in the name. It's certainly not in the features (piston, CHF bbl, ambi lower, captured recoil spring, hydraulic buffer, FF handguard, billet upper/lower etc). But some are subjective, like the way the rifle looks or the value one ascribes to the brand name. If I had buy a factory AR, there are names I would pay more for, and there are those that I don't think are worth the extra money. Noveske a brand whose market share has shrunk dramatically since its heyday. IMO, there are good reasons for that. I personally value the reputations of BCM, DD, Barrett, Knights, and LWRC individually over that of Noveske at this point. The foregoing list isn't necessarily exclusive, it's just a few examples I can name off the top of my head.

that makes sense. thanks for the response. I want to get a Barrett when production catches up!!

Couldn't pick a worse time to be AR shopping.

Edited to add. If you have local gun classifieds, I'd watch them like a hawk. Lots of people out of work right now and there's deals to be had, but you need to have cash on hand and be ready to jump.

I'd also add Sons of Liberty, Larue, Sionics, and Geissele to your list.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SIG228,

Am I reading this right that you own two handguns, no rifles?

Excellent advice LDD. I'd also agree with SIG228 that Geissele seems like a solid bet. With a Geissele, it seems like you get a lot of great features, with all their premium components. As a matter of fact, I was close to buying one myself.

With KAC, I really like their ambi lowers as well as their unique bolt lugs which are said to be markedly improved over standard AR bolts.

LMT has a lot going for them as well with their monolithic upper as well as their own reliability enhanced BCGs.

Another strong contender would be JP Enterprises. Talk about an innovative company! They have unique BCGs with either low or variable mass options along with their silent captured recoil system.

quote:

Originally posted by NapoleonSolo:
I am considering a Christensen ARM CA15 and debating to spend a little more for the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel. I will be using it for HD, range and maybe competition.

A few years ago in a Rifles Only carbine course, I shot another student's Christensen AR15. I compared it side by side to my Wilson Combat AR15. My thoughts:

The Christensen was lighter -- due to the carbon barrel and a lighter optic.

Fit and finish on both rifles was comparable.

Both rifles cycled flawlessly throughout the 5-day course.

The Wilson was noticeably more accurate, for targets from 50 to 500 yards.

There are a lot of good AR15s on the market. Many cost less than $1900; some cost more.
Right now is a really challenging time to buy and AR15 -- both completed rifles and components to build one. If you really must buy an AR15 now, take your time and be careful.

I recommend your shooting a few different models before making your purchase. Public ranges are great places to try other people's rifles, as most shooters want to show off their toys. Bring your own high-quality match ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by NapoleonSolo:
I am considering a Christensen ARM CA15 and debating to spend a little more for the Carbon Fiber wrapped barrel. I will be using it for HD, range and maybe competition.

A few years ago in a Rifles Only carbine course, I shot another student's Christensen AR15. I compared it side by side to my Wilson Combat AR15. My thoughts:

The Christensen was lighter -- due to the carbon barrel and a lighter optic.

Fit and finish on both rifles was comparable.

Both rifles cycled flawlessly throughout the 5-day course.

The Wilson was noticeably more accurate, for targets from 50 to 500 yards.

There are a lot of good AR15s on the market. Many cost less than $1900; some cost more.
Right now is a really challenging time to buy and AR15 -- both completed rifles and components to build one. If you really must buy an AR15 now, take your time and be careful.

I recommend your shooting a few different models before making your purchase. Public ranges are great places to try other people's rifles, as most shooters want to show off their toys. Bring your own high-quality match ammo.

Fritz speaks the truth...check with your range members to see if you can explore your options...good ammunition is the key

Sorry guys I have been offline for a day. I appreciate all of the advice so far. No, I do not have any rifles or shotguns anymore. Yeah, I know and a bad time to be buying but it is what it is. I have decided to slow down and shoot the rifles I can find from either friends or rent a few my LGS has available. I just don't want to wait until the election and on the off chance that dementia Joe were to win, deal with the massive panic buying then. I will reread this thread and check as much as I can each day. I appreciate everyone's help so much!

Some other guns, I would say go try things out since you pretty much get what you buy. An AR not so much. What you don't like you can fix or change after you have enough experience to have an opinion. Go find a good basic AR (6920 or similar) and go shooting. The politics and situation around these guns is such that I simply would not wait to have at least one. FWIW>

I would steer you towards V Seven for a high end AR15. I have just under 10k rounds through mine with zero malfunctions. Its the nicest AR i have ever handled.

Shoots sub MOA.

So I have found a few sites where I can find local Indiana gun classifieds. I like the idea of a FTF with someone with a known presence like many on here as that is the only way I would do a FTF. Also like the idea of it being somewhat under the radar. Bushmasters are a basic gun and relatively cheap and a LaRue at the other end of the spectrum. What thoughts do you guys have on an FTF purchase?

quote:

Originally posted by NapoleonSolo:
What thoughts do you guys have on an FTF purchase?

- do it someplace 'safe' -- open public area

- daylight hours

- bring someone else with you. have them get out and be visible but not boxed in

- have a pistol on you and another in your car

- get a good feel for the person ahead of time -- speak with them. how long have you had it? did you buy it new? why are you selling it? has it been a good rifle? proper english diction / not gangsta / trash speak

common sense -- trust your gut and should be fine

--------------------------------

I would not spend $1900 on 1 AR. If something goes wrong you have a fancy stick.
For $1900 I would look at
1 AR in the 1k range
cheap lower (psa or aero)as a backup
6.5 grendel upper or a 5.56 upper

By having the 6.5 you may be able to get ammo if no 5.56 is available.
If you don't want to have another caliber get a mid priced 5.56 upper.
Then you have a complete spare AR in 5.56

option 2 is
1 AR in the 1k range
lower parts kit as a backup
6.5 grendel upper or a backup 5.56 upper

option 3
1 AR in the 1k - 1.2k range
Ruger 1022 + mags and ammo

This is what I love about this place. I have learned so much since I have been posting instead of just reading the threads every day. So once again I am changing my mind as you guys are the objectivity I need rather than what I want and not necessarily need. I do like the idea of a mid priced AR and then a lower and upper. So am I correct that a lower is not round dependent? In other words, I could have a 556 rifle and a 6.5 upper that would work by installing it in place of the 556 upper.