Hello all,

Okay, just kidding. I know that the "strange" stamp is a Triskelion stamp, but I do not know a lot about what it means, other than the re-unification of East and West Germany and that Sig overstamped the "W" roll mark with it. I am not sure if it adds much inherent value to the pistol. I have always loved the P220. When I was young boy, back in another epoch it seems, I had saved up money from mowing lawns, shoveling show, and anything else I could do until a had a decent sum. I used to go to gun shops with my Dad from as far back as I can remember and on one gun store visit, when I was 12, I think, I vividly remember asking to see a P220 and I was instantly in love with it! I told my Dad, “This is what I want." I remember his smirk as he said smugly, "if you are going to get a forty-five, get a 1911." Well, that was the end of that. I did get a revolver when I was 13, a Dan Wesson Model 15 in .357 Mag. I remember that he wanted me to get a Smith, but I wanted something different, and those were all-the-rage then, but I still wanted that P220 so badly. Back in those days, I used to read all of my Dad's gun magazines. Only after his perusal, he would put them in the pile of old ones that I could then ravage through. In those days the raging .45 vs 9mm debate was endless as well the high-capacity vs old-school 1911 pistols. The debate was as pointless then as it is now, at least to me. Carry what fits your hand, that you shoot well, that you will actually carry is what I maintain, especially to the new shooters out there.

Dad did not like the spray-and-pray nines or the fancy double action/single action jobs, but that was then, as I said, it was another time. I was indeed the only 13-year-old on the block with a loaded .357 magnum in is dresser drawer, but back then, everyone had guns. The principle and male teachers at my school kept bolt or lever guns in the back windows of their trucks. When I was in Jr. High, we had a shooting team that would pile up their 22s in the corner for Pete’s sake! It was a different time. This not my first P220. I did own an Elite Scorpion for about two years, I did love it and I do love FDE, as it is one of the colors I can actually see. However, I was always disappointed in how bad the trigger was in that P220. It couldn’t believe that they could charge so much for a pistol with a trigger that bad, but if you have ever handled a SCAR, tried the trigger -ugh!, and looked at the price then price and trigger quality are not always sensibly scalable.

On this this fine pistol. As you can see, the Triskelion stamp is quite clear and on the back sides of the magazines as well. The pistol is in near mint condition in the original box, missing whatever documentation it came with at the time. For those keen-eyed, you may notice the guide rod appears to be protruding from the slide a tad more than it should. Some buffoon along the way boogered up the original guide rod. How one does that is beyond me! It was peened over a bit at the locking lug end; hence it wouldn’t seat correctly. My friends over at Numrich gun parts had the factory original surplus in stock, so I ordered two of them. The “one is none, two is one, three is better” paradigm is generally my M.O. They were cheap, so why not? I have since replaced the guide rod; it matched the original finish perfectly.

So here she is, that is if you have not cheated and scrolled ahead to the pictures. I probably would have done that. If you read all of this, either way, thanks. I love talking anything about guns, unless it is black powder, high points, or dealing with anti-gun simpletons. If you have any info on this gun, such as when it was manufactured, approximate value, etc., please chime in. In any event I hope you enjoy seeing it. I will add more pictures if my fellow Sig lovers want.

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I believe this gun was made in 1986, though am not sure. I have wanted to call Sig; however, I rather doubt that they would have such production information, but who knows. I see some clues in that the slide is roll marked “MADE IN (OVERSTAMPED W) GERMANY on the right side and has SIGARMS INC. EXETER-NH roll marked on the left side. I am guessing and only guessing, that the slide was made in West Germany and shipped over to the US to be used to make a complete gun in New Hampshire. As for the magazines, perhaps made in completely West Germany? Perhaps assembled in Exeter? I do not know, but I would bet that someone here knows or has a pretty good idea. I was told that only 95 (ish) of the P220s are known to exist in this configuration, but that seems like a long shot to me.

As you can also see the gun nearly pristine. The breech block roll dual pins are correct and appear to be untampered. The grip screws are not buggered and there is very little wear on the hood of the barrel. It is also clean as a whistle. It appears to have been ultrasonically cleaned before coming into my hands. In fact, it was nearly bone dry. It had none of that old-lube crud we see on guns that have some kind of CLP that congeals or desiccates over time. It was so dry in fact, that I very lightly lubed the contact points only, as it seemed much too dry to cycle.

One last thing: I am debating if I should shoot it. I have shot many a P220s and have lots of guns to shoot. I believe that guns were made to be shot, but that some do fall into that category of being left alone and fondled from time to time and shared with the next generation. I collect other types of guns as well, so I had this debate with myself many times. Perhaps you know that feeling? I am happy to own it, as I am not too keen on the P320 line, and no offense to anyone on that, to each his own.

-Max

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Max_Vano,

That circular stamp is the SIG Sauer "triskelion" that the factory used to obliterate the "W" in the 1995-1996 guns, since West Germany ceased to exist several years ago, since 1990.

Your gun is 1996, not '86. It was made in Germany and assembled at SIG NH.

Btw, here is another way SIG obliterated that "W", using a swirl. This one, a 1995 (KF proof date) gun, was in my collection briefly.

There's an extraneous ":" in your IMG tags.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

Your gun is 1996, not '86.

Thanks!

Beautiful 220! I have one of these “overstamp” pistols as well, G 255, purchased new in either 96 or 97. I have shot it, and will continue to shoot it, as it is my favorite pistol thus far. That being said, I haven’t put too many rounds through it, I’d say 500 or less.

Nice!

I've seen the @ overstamp, but not the Triskelion.

Now you're half way there to decide the .45 P220 vs 9mm P220 debate.

The third „S“ is for Sohn. German for Son.

Congratulations on a great find.

Others may disagree, but I consider the mid 90's P-220's to be the finest vintage.

Everything you need and nothing you don't.

I've got G257166 with the same overstamp. SIG tells me this pistol was manufactured in November, 1995. I bought it brand new a year later. In my opinion, this very early US-assembled P-220 is every bit the equal of its European-assembled counterpart- a very smooth and beautiful .45.

quote:

Originally posted by Udo:
The third „S“ is for Sohn. German for Son.

I believe the third “S” actually stands for Suhl, the city that JP Sauer & Sohn was located

Brain fart
Sauer und Sohn Suhl
No SIG

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I've got G257166 with the same overstamp. SIG tells me this pistol was manufactured in November, 1995. I bought it brand new a year later. In my opinion, this very early US-assembled P-220 is every bit the equal of its European-assembled counterpart- a very smooth and beautiful .45.

I concur. This gun is butter smooth and the trigger is very good for out of the box. As I have stated, I am no fan of the P320 guns, nor the P365 series, however, I wanted to like them. It is only the older, if you will, Sigs that light my fire. The lost but not forgotten Mastershop produced as good a "production" firearm as I have ever seen.

The question remains: is my particular P220 too rare to shoot. Anyone have an approximation of production numbers on the Triskelion P220s?

quote:

Originally posted by Udo:
Brain fart
Sauer und Sohn Suhl
No SIG

Thank you for the info! And thanks to the other posters here. I am very new but will keep posting. I have a couple two or three more Sigs, maybe that you guys might want to see.

Udo,

Are you the keeper of the Kingdom when it comes to serial numbers? If so, any production numbers?

quote:

Originally posted by Max_Vano:

...

As you can also see the gun nearly pristine. The breech block roll dual pins are correct and appear to be untampered.

...

Indeed that P220 is in beautiful condition, and a real treasure to find! Without seeing photos of the barrel and the typical telltale internal wear points, there is no way to guess at the round count, but if the barrel and internal parts are in as good condition as the exterior then you scored a fine specimen.

Were it mine, if I determined that it was unfired (factory test fired only) then I'd leave it unfired and keep it as reference piece, and find another used one as a shooter. If I thought the gun had been fired, but low round count, then it would see very occasional range time, unless I was going to carry for defensive use, in which case it would be regularly shot.

Keep in mind that there is a SIG factory preventative maintenance parts replacement schedule. Obviously this won't matter if you don't shoot it, but it starts to factor in the more rounds you put on the gun.

SIG factory recommendation is that the Breech Block dual split roll pins be replaced every 5000 rounds. Exceeding the count by some small amount probably won't matter much, but eventually the roll pins may break (sometimes not readily evident), leading to increased frame rail wear and, eventually, a frame rail breaks.

Sometimes, as round counts increase, you'll notice the dual split roll pins slowly 'walking' out the side of the slide and may be an indication that they are worn or broken.

Some classic P series owners cut the pin replacement schedule down to 2500-3000 rounds to be safe, or when regularly shooting higher pressure loads.

You'll want to stay on top of Recoil Spring replacements if you regularly shoot it as well.

Your question regarding the Triskelion has already been answered, but just to clarify, it was in common use on SIG Sauers long before re-unification. The factory simply used their existing logo as one means of over-striking the "W" on slides within the re-unification production timeframe.

Thanks for sharing the photos of that gem, and welcome to the forum!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Modern Day Savage,

quote:

Originally posted by Max_Vano:
Udo,

Are you the keeper of the Kingdom when it comes to serial numbers? If so, any production numbers?

KOTK translates to Secretary. My task is to keep the list updated with all the gracious contributions of our members. The list enables everyone from Expert to beginner to have access to the information. I doubt if any of us are ready to extrapolate production numbers from the list, but the day might come in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by Max_Vano:
The question remains: is my particular P220 too rare to shoot.

Absolutely not.

quote:

Anyone have an approximation of production numbers on the Triskelion P220s?

Likely, only SIG knows this figure, and even they may not know it. I imagine the overstamp was done by SIG in Europe before the slides, frames, barrels and associated parts made their way across the pond. Frankly, I don't think anyone at SIG USA would care.

My guess is several hundred at a minimum. Between my serial number in the G257000 range, to your pistol in the G271000 range- this suggests thousands of P-220s so marked.

Shoot your pistol and enjoy it.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
My guess is several hundred at a minimum. Between my serial number in the G257000 range, to your pistol in the G271000 range- this suggests thousands of P-220s so marked.

Shoot your pistol and enjoy it.

The earliest over-stamped P220 I examined is G254170. I too agree there are likely thousands of these stamped pistols in the wild. In fact, there are several sub-variations. Unlike coins, pistols with anomalous markings generally do not command a premium. I'm sure many recall the Lyson's Corner P226's. Enjoy!

By the way- my example is in K-Kote.

SigLites, too, but those are deader'n Julius Caesar.

I bought it from Doc Avery. Heady days.

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:

quote:

Originally posted by Max_Vano:

...

As you can also see the gun nearly pristine. The breech block roll dual pins are correct and appear to be untampered.

...

Indeed that P220 is in beautiful condition, and a real treasure to find! Without seeing photos of the barrel and the typical telltale internal wear points, there is no way to guess at the round count, but if the barrel and internal parts are in as good condition as the exterior then you scored a fine specimen.

Were it mine, if I determined that it was unfired (factory test fired only) then I'd leave it unfired and keep it as reference piece, and find another used one as a shooter. If I thought the gun had been fired, but low round count, then it would see very occasional range time, unless I was going to carry for defensive use, in which case it would be regularly shot.

Keep in mind that there is a SIG factory preventative maintenance parts replacement schedule. Obviously this won't matter if you don't shoot it, but it starts to factor in the more rounds you put on the gun.

SIG factory recommendation is that the Breech Block dual split roll pins be replaced every 5000 rounds. Exceeding the count by some small amount probably won't matter much, but eventually the roll pins may break (sometimes not readily evident), leading to increased frame rail wear and, eventually, a frame rail breaks.

Sometimes, as round counts increase, you'll notice the dual split roll pins slowly 'walking' out the side of the slide and may be an indication that they are worn or broken.

Some classic P series owners cut the pin replacement schedule down to 2500-3000 rounds to be safe, or when regularly shooting higher pressure loads.

You'll want to stay on top of Recoil Spring replacements if you regularly shoot it as well.

Your question regarding the Triskelion has already been answered, but just to clarify, it was in common use on SIG Sauers long before re-unification. The factory simply used their existing logo as one means of over-striking the "W" on slides within the re-unification production timeframe.

Thanks for sharing the photos of that gem, and welcome to the forum!

Thank you for sharing that info. As for the preventative parts replacement schedule, that reminds me, I should have all of those extra parts in my kit. Keeping with the 1 is none, 2 is 1, and 3 is better theme, I will order a set of replacement parts for it and a couple of other Sigs I have. Given that you are likely more up on your Sigs than I am, other than Numrich, who do you recommend getting parts from? I will buy directly from Sig and not grumble too much about their confiscatory prices, but options are good to have.

Thanks,
Max

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

Shoot your pistol and enjoy it.

This I must do! Perhaps this week. I haven't had a day off in about 6 months and I find myself sitting here with a list of projects, wanting to sleep in, that's not gonna happen, just veg and binge watch some stuff, but my heart calls for the range, the acrid smell of burnt powder and the, "tink... tink-tink-tink" of hot empty brass bouncing off of concrete.

Other than the P220, I have a new to me P239, a P230, and others that need some trigger time. I have some optics to zero on an AR or two and I just picked up the much lauded subgun to end all subguns, in semi only of course, that I need to put through its paces. There are indeed some benefits to getting older.

Thanks to all who have posted. I kind of like it here.

-Max