First and foremost I don't mean this as a "ballistic" conversation. Yes one can argue that this caliber or that is "better" then 9x19mm. Not the point.

The point is I cannot think of any caliber that has been created that.....
-Was created over a century ago
-Has been heavily adopted by Military and Police since basically the beginning
-Has been in common use since pretty much the start
-Not only is still in use but gaining steam a century later.
-Continues to this day to be one of the most, if not the most common caliber the world over.

I realize there are plenty of cartridges still in use as old or older but I cannot think of any that have the adoption rate and use the 9x19mm has achieved.

Will we ever see another "traditional powder burning" cartridge that achieves a similar run? I mean the collective WE as I won't be around 100 years from now.

I have been shooting more .45 as of late and I just got to thinking about it being a century old and then I got to thinking about the sheer global success of that little round old Georg threw together so long ago. Love it, hate it, prefer others to it.....doesn't matter objectively from an adoption and historical use pattern the 9x19mm is probably the best pistol caliber ever conceived.

EDITED - I guess .22LR could be one other cartridge in this regard.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cslinger,

I know this is in Pistols, but 12 gauge maybe?

It was still being carried by Marines in "Aliens". Which I think is a valid prediction for the future.

Otherwise, no. My guess is we'll have moved on from gunpowder all together before another cartridge like 9mm comes along.

The amazing thing about the 9x19mm cartridge is that it was intended as a stopgap measure. Customers wanted a larger caliber than that of the 7.65x21mm, so the 9x19 was created simply by expanding the case neck of the .30 Luger as much as possible.

Everything about the 9mm Parabellum is Goldilocks: not too big, not too small, not too weak, not too warm, but just right.

The 9x19 cartridge is the best
compromise between decent power and
controlibility for most users.

Especially so in the size semi auto pistols have been for most of their existence. Micro 9x19s are new to the scene and changes the discussion somewhat.

Georg Luger's biggest contribution to small arms wasn't perfecting Borschardt's design to become the P08. It was inventing the 9x19 cartridge.

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Georg Luger's biggest contribution to small arms wasn't perfecting Borschardt's design to become the P08. It was inventing the 9x19 cartridge.

Agree. I always wonder what these guys would think if they could see their inventions/products still in the mainstream a century or more later (Luger, JMB, Winchester etc.)

This thread reminded me of an interesting discussion I had with a friend back in 1963 about the 9x19 vs the .45ACP as to which was best. I picked the 9x19 for my first handgun in a Browning HiPower. At 78 I just purchased what is probably my last gun, a Wilson SFT9, another 9x19. Funny with all the different caliber handguns I own/owned my first and last are chambered in 9x19. The same rationale for picking the 9x19 then holds as true now as it did then. There are better choices for specific uses but nothing fits that good for all uses like it does. So, it is unlikely we will ever see its likes again.

I agree with you and Para. The longer I use the 9mm, the more I fall in love with it, over and again. It's the perfect blend of whatever makes it great. Sort of like the 7x57 and the 375 Holland. Beautifully balanced, versatile, amazing classics.

quote:

I agree with you and Para.

Hey now don’t get me wrong I loves me some rounds that start with 4. . I was just making an objective observation. .

Seriously though I am and have really generally always been fairly caliber agnostic so to speak with a leaning towards .45 (I just like it no bullshit cuz shooting twice is silly reason kinda thing) but I absolutely agree the 9mm truly was a perfect Goldilocks round and continues to be so. It just boggles my mind that over a century later it is still GAINING in popularity.

I am just always a bit in awe of those turn of the century inventors from the late 1800s through the 1930s or so. They really were kinda writing the book for so many things while at the same time sort of making it up from scratch.

I use the word "efficient" in describing the 9mm Parabellum.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Everything about the 9mm Parabellum is Goldilocks: not too big, not too small, not too weak, not too warm, but just right.

I like your Goldilocks analogy

While I shoot more .45 ACP and .38 Special these days, 9mm remains another favorite of mine, and is a caliber I have no qualms about shooting or carrying. As noted, what a widely-available round it is not just here but abroad.

And your mention of .22LR, OP, makes sense to me, too - in addition to just being a fun round to shoot, it can make for a great skill-builder, too. I like to bring an old S&W K-22 along anytime I’m also going to be shooting centerfire revolvers, shooting the K-22 as a bit of a “warm-up.”

Probably the handgun cartridge that has benefitted the most from technology and modern bullets. (and received the most attention/had the most effort applied to it)

5.56x45 mm, 7.62x39mm, and 7.62x51mm may not have been around as long as 9x19mm, but they are as common and are still in use by military/police/security forces worldwide.

Of those, my vote goes to 7.62x39mm. It was designed in 1943, entered production in 1944. Since then the world produced hundreds of billions of 7.62x39mm cartridges and hundreds of millions of rifles, assault rifles, and machine guns chambered in 7.62x39mm.

Like Para observed about 9x19mm, it is an intermediate cartridge in every respect, pure золотые волосы .

So your saying I should get a 1911 in 9mm.

Read somewhere that the 9mm got popularity boost when Jimmy Carter tried to impose the metric system on the USA. 9mm gained popularity as it was metric.

Uh, no

Great versatility and has darn near everything chambered in it. Economical to manufacture, purchase, and practice with.

While there are other rounds that do more and suit specific needs better, 9mm is where its at (that and I don't think that 7.65mm is going to make a comeback, but I like that one as well).

quote:

So your saying I should get a 1911 in 9mm.

Of course I am. I would never say no to somebody buying a new gun this side of a Raven or......KelTec....yeah yeah bring on the hate.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cslinger,

What is interesting is that in 1900 the Browning Automatic was introduced and targeted by Colt for Military service. Note, the Browning Automatic is the gun that evolved into the 1911. At that time the 38 Long Colt was the official Service Caliber for the US Army and the cartridge introduced for the Browning Automatic was the 38 ACP, a slightly more powerful interpretation for the 38 Long Colt. Dimensionally this can be described as the 9 x 23mm. In terms of Power this drove a 0.357 diameter bullet weighing in at 130 grains at a velocity of 1280 fps which proved too powerful for the 1900 Automatic so it was cut back to 1180 fps. Gee, a 9mm with a 130 grain bullet at 1180 fps in 1900. So, where did that 9mm parabellum come from? I would submit the inspiration for Luger was the 38 ACP and it was scaled back a bit to dodge Browning patent and reduce it's energy enough so it didn't shoot the Luger pistol into a pile of broken parts. Note, Luger was well aware of the Browning Automatic, this was a time in which nearly all of the world was re-arming to take advantage Smokeless powders and designers were studying anything/everything new to the market.

I received an email advertising a decent 9mm 1911 for $299. At that price, why not? Seems to me, a former Navy man should have one.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
So your saying I should get a 1911 in 9mm.