quote:

Originally posted by Flork:

quote:

Originally posted by Palmaris:
But stil don't understand what is the difference between industrial grease and gun grease. What is so special in gun grease (if any)?
Can someone point it to me please.

The title on the container is about it.

Generally gun greasees will have an acceptable temperature operating range of between -20 to +120 degrees or so. I've used a lot of insudstrial lubricants that get super sticky when cold or just get slimey and run off when they get hot. The trick is to find a lubicant that will work in both extremes.

I think the general trem gun grease, would cover greases that have been tetsted and proven to work well with guns.

The Grey grease I've been playing with recently is a mixture of a couple of industrial lubricants that I've had very good success with so far.

So, what IS this mixture of grease you have come up with?

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:
Is the oil just a wast of time?

It's not necessarily a waste of time.

Here's the thing. Grease Lubricates and Oil cleans.

Grease gets into the spaces and creates a barrier between the pieces of material, which protects the parts from one another. Grease tends to stay in place doing it's job where as Oil just isn't sticky enough.

Oil gets into the spaces of machine better than grease, but it's viscosity is so much less that once applied it won't stay in place. Some oils have dry impregnated particles that are supposed to remain after the oil has run off or evaporated, but that protection only lasts as long as you continually reapply the oil.

Oil being applied over grease as a top layer will capture dust and other debris from the environment and make a blob that will just run off, leaving the grease to do it's job on the inside.

I've heard the arguement that oil is used in High perfocmance sports car engines so it's good enough for a gun. Thik about this. The crank case or transfer of an Indy Car or your own car for that matter is sealed. Not much gets in or out of there until you crack it open. Oil is great in a sealed envoronment, but not out in the open. Grease is used on U joints and bearings where they're out in the open and have to be able to withstand the elements.

If you're gonna do a range session where you're planning to fire more than a couple magazines, by all means grease then oil the hell out of it, the extra lube can't hurt one bit.

^^^^^
To add to this, in the vehicle the oil is pumped to the areas that need lubrication constantly while the engine is moving. In areas that oil can not be pumped to or immersed in oil for lubrication (wheel bearings come to mind) they use grease.

Wheel bearings on over the road trucks (semis)and other vehicles with solid axles (rear wheel drive) use oil for their bearings. Manual transmissions use oil for their bearings with no pump. Differentials use gear oil with no pumps and they see pressures that will shread most firearms.

Using the properly formulated lubricant for what you are lubricating is the key. Lubricating aluminum is not easy as it is not very reactive to most additives, unlike steel.

Just because something will lube steel well doesn't necessarily mean it will lube aluminum well and vice versa.

Also, "Way oil" is quite common in industry uses for sliding metal surfaces:
http://www.castrol.com/liveass..._tribol_1066_tds.pdf

http://www.smallandsonsoil.com...s/76/way_oil_hd7.pdf

Those items also are partially submerged in oil and or the parts travel through the oil. They are not covered in oil one time and let go, they are bathed in oil.

quote:

Originally posted by Flork:
Love the White Lithim greases, they work great. That's what Lubriplate is.

As for Stainless vs. Alloy, I personally lube them the same. If you run an Alloy Sig dry for a couple of rounds, you might not do too much damage, but if you did the same with a Stainless gun, you could gall the frame and slide so badly that you could cause a friction weld or destroy your slide to frame fit.

When I'm fitting a barrel or refitting a slide to frame fit, I lubricate the area with oil, but I keep it wet while I'm workign on it, I never let the surfaces rub on each other without some lube in there, especially with Stainless on Stainless.

So, yea I grease Alloy and Stainless the same

Flork,

Great info. Thanks.

Brownells has two grades of Lubriplate listed. Which one do you use?

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Tempest:
Wheel bearings on over the road trucks (semis)and other vehicles with solid axles (rear wheel drive) use oil for their bearings. Manual transmissions use oil for their bearings with no pump. Differentials use gear oil with no pumps and they see pressures that will shread most firearms.

Using the properly formulated lubricant for what you are lubricating is the key. Lubricating aluminum is not easy as it is not very reactive to most additives, unlike steel.

Just because something will lube steel well doesn't necessarily mean it will lube aluminum well and vice versa.

Also, "Way oil" is quite common in industry uses for sliding metal surfaces:
http://www.castrol.com/liveass..._tribol_1066_tds.pdf

http://www.smallandsonsoil.com...s/76/way_oil_hd7.pdf

We used all manner of POL on fighter aircraft.
All manner of metals, both similar and dis-similar contact. all sorts of coatings, and non-coated metal surfaces. Extreme temps, vibration, heat, cold, pressure, friction loads that would shred most heavy duty truck transmissions.

We used grease on almost everything. Synthetic oil for jet engines. And a little oil here and there for piano hinges and such.

We used various greases, lithium, molly b, teflon etc.

I have heard the arguments on shear vs pressure regarding friction types for the sake of why grease is not better than oils.

Flork is 100% on. Grease wins.

I suspect that in the early days, oil was about all there was, and so no one saw fit to change what works, (except when something may work better).

Many of the gun lubes and oils are adding better components, but oil is still thin and will run or dry, and as shown, people tend to be neglectful.

It needs to suspend abrasives.
It needs to present a film barrier.
It needs to lubricate always.
It needs to be persistent.

and more.

Grease does this, and oil sometimes not.

I cannot think of anything grease will not do, that oil does.

Guns are not in an oil bath as 95flhr states.


And Flork has seen a few with a broad spectrum of use/abuse.

my 2 cents.

Flork,

Thanks for the advice. I'm doing my best to evolve from an oil guy to a grease guy, and I look forward to your future posts. Lubrication (oil vs. grease) topics I'd like to see covered include:
- barrel & slide contact points (for pistols)
- revolvers
- ARs (especially on an extended shooting session, where it's often pretty easy to hose down the insides with a little oil and keep going)
- bolt-action rifles
- magazines



And best wishes with cornering the futures market on KY. Which reminds me -- the next time I drop a magazine at a GGI gun camp, I'm considering kicking it all the way to Portland before bending over to pick it up.

quote:

Originally posted by Rln_21:

quote:

Originally posted by P220forever:
I'm not nearly using enough by the look of the pictures. I tend to take too long daintily placing the grease with a Q-tip. I think Brownell's sells syringes for grease.

Your putting grease on a handgun, not applying fingernail polish or lipstick; theres no room for "dainty" here.

You may be assuming that Sig Forum members apply polish and lipstick "daintily", when some may be more "burly" in their approach.



Not that there's anything wrong with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_in_VA:
Brownells has two grades of Lubriplate listed. Which one do you use?

I've got the paint can in the shop.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
Flork,

Thanks for the advice. I'm doing my best to evolve from an oil guy to a grease guy, and I look forward to your future posts. Lubrication (oil vs. grease) topics I'd like to see covered include:
- barrel & slide contact points (for pistols)
- revolvers
- ARs (especially on an extended shooting session, where it's often pretty easy to hose down the insides with a little oil and keep going)
- bolt-action rifles
- magazines



And best wishes with cornering the futures market on KY. Which reminds me -- the next time I drop a magazine at a GGI gun camp, I'm considering kicking it all the way to Portland before bending over to pick it up.

I'll be getting to those real soon. My main focus was the rails of a Sig for this post.

quote:

Originally posted by Flork:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_in_VA:
Brownells has two grades of Lubriplate listed. Which one do you use?

I've got the paint can in the shop.

Thanks,

Mike

Thanks for the tips. I just picked up some Lubriplate on my lunch hour and look forward to stripping and greasing my P220. What a labor of love!

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Flork is 100% on. Grease wins.

I fully realize that Flork and GGI are giving honest opinions based on their experiance. IMHO, Sig currently has serious design flaw and/or quality control issues and GGI is doing what they can to mitigate this...which is great. I'm all for their recommendations based on their experiance.

What I am trying to get across is that lubrication is MUCH more complicated that what is typically presented. Most people don't understand how additives in lubricants affect wear protection performance. "Lube is lube" is not correct.

This is a poor test but is does show the effects of additives.

I know that I have gotten a gun very hot after several hundred rounds and the oil was still very presant. Did some of the oil run out? Sure, but the gun was far from dry. The oil was still on the gun when I got home.

If you want to use grease (or whatever), go for it. Based on the results of GGI (and the wear that has been posted here), it's a good idea for aluminum frames.
I like this: http://www.valtrousa.com/jardinesextremegrease.html
as it is a multi-metal grease.

After last weekends match, I realized that it is possible to use too much Slide glide (medium) and hydrolock a STI. Now, granted it's a competition gun with a light recoil spring, tighter slide-frame fit, lower power loads, etc..., but can that be an issue with alloy frame Sigs?

quote:

Originally posted by CPUFIXER:
but can that be an issue with alloy frame Sigs?

I'd have to say that's possible with most anything.

With all the Alloy frame Sigs I've seen, I've only had trouble with over greasing the rails on 2 occasions, in both cases I was using a mixture of break caliper grease and another grease that was just way to viscus. The guns were cold and the grease was just too thick to allow it to run.

quote:

Originally posted by CPUFIXER:
After last weekends match, I realized that it is possible to use too much Slide glide (medium) and hydrolock a STI. Now, granted it's a competition gun with a light recoil spring, tighter slide-frame fit, lower power loads, etc..., but can that be an issue with alloy frame Sigs?

Could you give a description of what you mean by "hydrolock"?

Basically make it so goopy with extra lube that the slide doesn't run.

Grease attenuates slide velocity, so if you have enough of it in the mechanism it can slow the slide velocity enough to cause feeding issues.

If you were to completely fill every crevase of your gun with grease, you'd probably cause that to happen.

Great post Scott,

I do my rails very similar, and on the competition guns that GGI has done for me, it is not un-common to see the front and back of the gun covered in exes grease after a match.

FWIW, I use brian enos slide glide, or super lube, which is a synthetic grease that has an operating temperature of -45 to +450 degrees. So far I am pretty happy with it, and use it on my carry gun.

Flork,

At what temps should you go to a lighter or heavier grease?


Kevin