quote:

Originally posted by NavyGuy:
I don't know why people jones for extra-supper power for defense. I feel perfectly comfortable with standard pressure commercial defense rounds. I shoot them better and although thankfully I've I haven't been confronted with a need to shoot a bad guy, I have a hard time believing an extra 60 or so FTS would make a difference. But hey load what you feel comfortable with.

Agree with you - GENERALLY.

However, when I bought my Federal 9BPLE 115 +P+ they were HALF the price of bonded core. Bought a bunch. Reasons:

1) Price as mentioned above.

2) They weren't just +P+. The 9BPLE was used over 25 years by a large number of LEA's. Good track record of actual shootings. I will not carry boutique ammo that has no track record of numerous ACTUAL shootings. I'm not a ballistic gel guy. Just old I guess.

3) Ayoob spoke highly of them. Whether you follow Mas or not, he knows a Helluva lot more about performance of rounds used in law enforcement circles than I do. He obviously is not at liberty to share details with us.

4) Before I got my nines, I shot .357 Mag, .45 ACP and .40 S&W over a 40 year period. IMHO, the recoil of 9mm +P+ is LESS than those cartridges, even at age 80.

5) I'm a civilian. Generally, the bonded core features ARE important for LEA environments. With me, it's most likely a stand up gunfight in the open with a perp who wants my wallet, car or just feels like killing somebody.

Hope this helps.

^I also agree generally. That stated, I think there are reasons for +P:

External ballistics: the faster the round, the flatter the trajectory. I often shoot at longer ranges, and it helps when I don’t need to figure the correct holdover.

Terminal ballistics: higher velocities support bullet expansion for a more reliable defense round.

Consistency: I shoot a lot of 9mm NATO, which is a fairly hot round though not marketed as a +P cartridge. It’s again convenient not having to adjust to a slower, less powerful round.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
^I also agree generally. That stated, I think there are reasons for +P:

External ballistics: the faster the round, the flatter the trajectory. I often shoot at longer ranges, and it helps when I don’t need to figure the correct holdover.

Terminal ballistics: higher velocities support bullet expansion for a more reliable defense round.

Consistency: I shoot a lot of 9mm NATO, which is a fairly hot round though not marketed as a +P cartridge. It’s again convenient not having to adjust to a slower, less powerful round.

Of course all you have said it technically correct if we're talking about shooting at the range at extended distances, or the very rare occurrence of the guy shooting the bad guy at 40 yards. Reality is most self defense shootings are far less. Like 5 yards. Bullet drop has zero impact at those distances. I guess you need to decide what's important. .1 bullet drop at defense distances, shotablilty, or fun at the range at long distance. Me, my carry guns are for protection. A guy 25 yards away doesn't scare me much unless he's got an AR or some such trained on me.

If carrying a flame thrower or RPG was practical and not frowned upon I would do that.

If either could be easily concealed I would do that.

I'm not much in a windstorm, so I need easily concealed weapons and I like them to be as close to the aforementioned options as possible.

quote:

Originally posted by NavyGuy:
Of course all you have said it technically correct if we're talking about shooting at the range at extended distances, or the very rare occurrence of the guy shooting the bad guy at 40 yards. Reality is most self defense shootings are far less. Like 5 yards. Bullet drop has zero impact at those distances. I guess you need to decide what's important. .1 bullet drop at defense distances, shotablilty, or fun at the range at long distance. Me, my carry guns are for protection. A guy 25 yards away doesn't scare me much unless he's got an AR or some such trained on me.

Makes sense.

Received the P320 sub compact kit a few days ago and took it shooting, so here's a range report/update.

Without prior cleaning, firing 150 rounds of blazer 115gr. and 10 rounds of the Underwood 90gr. +P+ using both the provided 12rd mag, as well as a 17rd full size mag, resulted in 0 malfunctions. Groups were formed where the front sight's dot covered the target out to 10 yards.

The Underwood ammo was definitely hotter, but the primers still had a bit of round edge showing. I don't think the pistol minded them at all.

TL/DR: It will do just fine.

I know a lot of folks say the extra fps isn’t worthwhile, but, out of curiosity —
For those of you who said you wouldn’t shoot +P+ out of a 365, would you feel more comfortable shooting it out of a G43?

quote:

wouldn’t shoot +P+ out of a 365, would you feel more comfortable shooting it out of a G43?

"+P+" is not a number, it's a description. There is no upper bound.

Any and every pressure greater than SAAMI standards for "+P" gets called "+P+". 1% over? 50% over? Same designation. In other words, all that designation means is "Terra incognita."

What they ought to do is have all ammo designed over SAAMI standards list the actual pressure on the box, in large bold type. THAT, you could check against your firearm's specs and/or discuss with the maker.

I've fired +P from a Glock with no ill effects, but their lack of a fully supported chamber gives me more reason for pause than the SIG design.

Also, I wouldn't use the word "comfortable" to describe shooting +P+ from such a pistol anyway.

Just post the pictures when you grenade it.