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P320 or P365 for +P+ limited use? Login/Join 
Experienced Slacker
posted
First, I recognize that SIG does NOT condone +P+ ammo in any of their pistols.

However I happen to have four boxes of Lehigh 90gr. 9mm +P+ that tell me they want to be tested and kept loaded for SD. What am I supposed to tell them?

I'm leaning towards the P320 since I have a full size, can get the sub compact kit for less than a whole P365, and I'm generally a cheap bastard.
 
Posts: 7019 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I would pick P320 because it is larger and mass counts.
 
Posts: 3103 | Location: Florence, Alabama, USA | Registered: July 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Giftedly Outspoken
Picture of sigarms229
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I have run alot of Federal 9BPLE +p+ in some of my P320's with no issues.



Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six
 
Posts: 4256 | Location: SouthCentral PA | Registered: December 05, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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^^^ Same here. Also use it in my G19's and G34 with no issues either.

Personally, I would not use it in the P365. At least for now. Pistol's too new to get adverse feedback on use of +P+. Also considerably less beefy than the P320.


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An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler
 
Posts: 4581 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: June 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I agree with the reasoning of why 320 would be a better choice. Based on this scenario though I think I would use it in the 365 as well. You have 4 boxes of ammo, 200 rounds. You want to test fire it at least a box to make sure it functions well and then have 3ish boxes for actual loadout. I seriously would be shocked if even shooting all 200 rounds in one sit would do anything adverse. You don't have a case of those things lying around that you didn't tell us about do you? lol
 
Posts: 5426 | Registered: June 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The military 9mm load for the M17 is at least +P+ rating. So it should be fine for the 320 I guess. Wouldn't try it in a 365 because physics.
 
Posts: 4560 | Location: Middletown, PA | Registered: January 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Experienced Slacker
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Due to unanimous decision I've just ordered the P320 kit.
Thanks all
 
Posts: 7019 | Registered: May 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
probably a good thing
I don't have a cut
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Dang. Late to the thread. I have a compact top end for a P320 that I've been to lazy to put in the classifieds. I guess I'll have to do that now that it's too late.
 
Posts: 2953 | Location: Tampa, FL | Registered: February 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Something to keep in mind in discussions about +P and +P+ ammunition is that those designations do not establish minimum power levels, and certainly do not tell us what effects cartridges labeled with those designations will have on the guns they’re fired in.

A SAAMI label of +P is like speed limit that says what the maximum legal speed is, not the minimum. It isn’t like a regulation that says an alcoholic beverage must have at least 40% alcohol to be labeled whiskey. Ammunition labeled +P can be loaded to any pressure the manufacturer wants as long as it doesn’t exceed the SAAMI limit. I have tested so-called +P 9mm ammo whose velocities were no greater than some standard pressure loads’. And 9mm +P+ means even less because it’s not a SAAMI designation and therefore it can mean anything—or nothing.

Chamber pressure by itself isn’t what damages or wears out a gun. As long as it’s not enough to blow up the gun, what matters in an autoloading pistol is slide velocity and that’s a function of the projectile momentum. The Winchester commercial offering of its M1152 load is indeed hotter than many other loads, including some that are labeled +P or even +P+. It doesn’t bear either designation, but the fine print on the box says that it’s loaded to “military” pressures that can be 10 to 15 percent higher than standard 9mm pressure. That means its chamber pressure could be as much as 38500 to over 40000 PSI. (The SAAMI limits for 357 SIG are 40K and the 9mm +P limit is 38500.)




7/93
 
Posts: 45885 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Personally, if I feel the need for a round more powerful than standard, I get a bigger caliber. Why the heck would you want to risk a 500 dollar or so gun for a minimal increase in performance? Besides, there is no standard definition for "+P+". It could be anything.
 
Posts: 16638 | Location: Lexington, KY | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A compact or full-size P320, OK, I guess. In a little gun like the P365, I think your hand might give out before the gun will. I can't imagine it being anything but unpleasant at the least, abusive at the most, to shoot. All this "big power in a small package" and other such talk sounds great until you actually touch one off.
 
Posts: 25958 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Fredward:
Personally, if I feel the need for a round more powerful than standard, I get a bigger caliber. Why the heck would you want to risk a 500 dollar or so gun for a minimal increase in performance? Besides, there is no standard definition for "+P+". It could be anything.

Perfectly valid viewpoint. Generally, don't disagree. However, I would have to say that some animals are more equal than others. In regard to my 9mm favorite, the Federal 9BPLE +P+, it had long been a favorite of LEA's all over the country for perhaps 25 years. Now replaced by bonded core no doubt. Had there been any overpressure issues associated with it we likely would have heard about it. Based on Ayoob's comments, it has a good track record for effectiveness as well.

Regarding another post on recoil of +P+. Just my own personal observation, but here goes anyway. The 9BPLE in my Glocks and P320 feels close to a .40 in regard to recoil. Pressure curve feels slightly different, but similar recoil. I've shot .40's since 1996 and have never had an issue with the recoil. Consequently, the above +P+ is no big deal. Individual thing, of course.

As I mentioned in my prior post, I concur with not using it in the P365 (at this point anyway), for a number of reasons.


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An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler
 
Posts: 4581 | Location: Pennsylvania | Registered: June 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for posting these opinions. The P365 is on my short list, and was curious about +P+ load. I'd probably never really go with such a round to begin with, but appreciate the members' knowledge here.




If you like religion, laws or sausage, then you shouldn't watch them being made.
 
Posts: 3315 | Location: SW Ohio | Registered: April 21, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nope...
 
Posts: 7548 | Location: Bismarck ND | Registered: February 19, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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So those are 20rd boxes? So you have 80 rds? There is not a chance I would trust any gun with a test that left me with rounds left over to load starting with 80. None.


“So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.”
 
Posts: 10197 | Registered: October 14, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Shaman
Picture of ScreamingCockatoo
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+P+ = I want to break my gun when standard defense ammunition will do the job.

If you want a hand cannon, get a 44 mag.





He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.
 
Posts: 39082 | Location: Atop the cockatoo tree | Registered: July 27, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Because I have a lot of it, and because practice / ensuring mag reliability, etc with better HST loads is expensive, I sometimes use BPLE in my 365’s. But more with 3.7” vs 3.1” barrels, as barrels less than 4” don’t take much benefit from the round.
No problem and not much increase in recoil.
But as Para has pointed out, BPLE is pretty mild +P+.
 
Posts: 658 | Location: Baltimore, MD | Registered: March 29, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I sent a pistol back to Sig for work. When it was returned they included the end flap of the box of ammunition it was test fired with - Winchester 127 grain +P+ Ranger T-series. I found it odd that they used that and not their own branded ammunition. That was with a classic P series though.
 
Posts: 136 | Registered: May 16, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't know why people jones for extra-supper power for defense. I feel perfectly comfortable with standard pressure commercial defense rounds. I shoot them better and although thankfully I've I haven't been confronted with a need to shoot a bad guy, I have a hard time believing an extra 60 or so FTS would make a difference. But hey load what you feel comfortable with.



Men fight for liberty and win it with hard knocks. Their children, brought up easy, let it slip away again, poor fools. And their grandchildren are once more slaves.

-D.H. Lawrence
 
Posts: 10943 | Location: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: February 07, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by NavyGuy:
I don't know why people jones for extra-supper power for defense. I feel perfectly comfortable with standard pressure commercial defense rounds. I shoot them better and although thankfully I've I haven't been confronted with a need to shoot a bad guy, I have a hard time believing an extra 60 or so FTS would make a difference. But hey load what you feel comfortable with.


I generally agree with you, but I'm using 124gr +P Gold dots that I bought when they were cheap & plentiful. I think it was $230/1k shipped to my door. Now I think I need something more powerful & maybe beltfed to protect that stash...
 
Posts: 3146 | Location: IN | Registered: January 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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