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Originally posted by Nick42:
The average number of pistol round hits to incapacitate a threat is more than two for 9mm and .45 ACP, per a study I read some time ago. That's hits, not shots, under stress, etc. If there are multiple threats, you can do the math. LE knows this.

Don't prepare for the average case, but for a worse case.

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Originally posted by cslinger:
Ammo is expensive. I am not using that .9 of a round unless I have to.

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Originally posted by Ogie:

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Originally posted by Nick42:
The average number of pistol round hits to incapacitate a threat is more than two for 9mm and .45 ACP, per a study I read some time ago. That's hits, not shots, under stress, etc. If there are multiple threats, you can do the math. LE knows this.

Don't prepare for the average case, but for a worse case.

If I recall correctly, FBI statistics from about 10 years ago showed that it took 2.1 rounds of 45, 2.6 rounds of 40 and 2.9 rounds of 9mm to incapacitate a threat. So shoot at least three times.

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Could anyone post a link to this? It gets handed down from person to person, but like Bigfoot, no one can actually prove they have seen it.

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I was just reminded of that scene in "Harley Davidson and The Marlboro Man."

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Originally posted by jljones:

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Originally posted by Nickelsig229:
No, they dump mags until whoever they are shooting at isn't moving and they can safely disarm them.

Understand that this is not a good metric. Most cops can’t shoot. Most agencies are still training the same methods they did in the 1960s. Most smaller agencies train very little beyond shooting state mandated qualifications. Training and ammo costs money.

Most cops aren’t gun guys. We have a cultural problem in LE where hard skills are less important than learning about community oriented policing topics. Then when they mag dump, we act all surprised.

The culture is changing and there are a lot of red shirts out there putting out practical shooting training at the agency level.

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Originally posted by jljones:

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Originally posted by 12131:

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As a civilian if you need more than 4-5 you have done a lot wrong ( situational awareness, not avoiding bad neighborhoods etc)

Here we go again with this tired old saying. This is a new century, where shit can happen to you anytime anywhere, by multiple armed thugs.

Indeed. The past few years has taught us a thing or two, if we’ve been willing to pay attention.

Carry capacity is and always will be a series of trade offs that YOU have to be comfortable with. I used to have a minimum of 31 rounds. In the last few months it has dropped to 21. The slim line Glocks are just so comfortable, and I get really decent performance.

I have become a really big fan of scaling. I can scale the 48 to 31 rounds by adding Shield arms mags. I can add a Taran extension to one and have a 20 round reload. Or I can swap to a 19. Did I mention how I like the 48 (and the 43x) and how easy they are to carry. My big concern with smaller guns is losing practical speed and accuracy. With the 48, I give very little up.

It’s a compromise and a choice.

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Say, if the Hi-Point were to be as equally ultra reliable as the G19, the 92FS or the P228, why would I want to even consider it, when the others are much better looking.

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Originally posted by jljones:

Indeed. The past few years has taught us a thing or two, if we’ve been willing to pay attention.

Carry capacity is and always will be a series of trade offs that YOU have to be comfortable with. I used to have a minimum of 31 rounds. In the last few months it has dropped to 21. The slim line Glocks are just so comfortable, and I get really decent performance.

I have become a really big fan of scaling. I can scale the 48 to 31 rounds by adding Shield arms mags. I can add a Taran extension to one and have a 20 round reload. Or I can swap to a 19. Did I mention how I like the 48 (and the 43x) and how easy they are to carry. My big concern with smaller guns is losing practical speed and accuracy. With the 48, I give very little up.

It’s a compromise and a choice.