For me, I'm in the "reliable and no safety" camp. Stay safe out there.

The primary answer is reliability.

Then, it has to be something I will actually carry. A gun that is too big, bulky or heavy is too easy to leave at home (at least for me).

Then, I have to be able to shoot the thing pretty well. In a smaller carry gun, for me that means keeping my shots in maybe a fist sized group out to 10 yards or so. But, I want to be able to do this on demand and with decent speed. I want to be able to shoot the thing pretty well two handed, right hand only and left hand only.

A reliable gun, that I can fairly easily conceal and shoot decently at speed is more important to me than capacity or bullseye level 25 or 50 yard accuracy.

For the record, I enjoy shooting for accuracy at 25-50 yards but a gun that does that well is not necessarily what I care about in a concealed carry gun.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Don’t be a dick. If you can cloverleaf or something similar a small carry gun at 10 yards it is more than up to the task regarding accuracy. Somebody could come in and tell you your 27 yard test is a joke. If it can’t group at 50 yards like a Baer guarantee you and your gun are laughable.

I think you missed your calling, the can you make a headshot in a hostage situation thread. SMDH.

I didn't say it wasn't, but I like to be more accurate than that. 10 yards doesn't mean anything to me. Doesn't seem a valuable enough exercise. I can throw a football accurately at ten yards too, but not so much at 30, it's a bit harder. Excuse me for trying.

I have seen statements by instructors and policy makers that if someone can hit a target at, for example, 25 yards, he can hit it at 7 yards. Well, yes, if I can hit a 25 yard target I can obviously hit one at 7 yards if I use the same techniques for both—and that’s the problem: If I’m fighting for my life, the techniques for hitting a target at 25 yards are not what I should be using if the target is at 7 yards. It’s hard to imagine what sort of situation would prompt me to exchange handgun shots with an attacker at 27 yards, but assuming it could happen, if I shot like I would at 7 yards, I’d probably be wasting most of my ammunition with misses. Conversely, if I used the methods necessary to get reliable hits at 27 yards while engaging a deadly threat at 7, I’d probably be dead before I got off my first shot.

There’s obviously nothing wrong with practicing to get hits at longer ranges. I’ve had trainees learn what is necessary to engage targets with their duty handguns at 50 yards. Most of their training and practice, however, is at the much closer distances where defensive engagements usually occur.

Reliability and being able to shoot it effectively at speed are probably the only true deal breakers for me. I have learned that my ability is more likely to disqualify a firearm from carrying than the weapon itself. I do consider size, capacity, weight, and reliability when choosing a carry gun. As to the P210 Carry, it does nothing for me that I don’t already have adequately covered in my own personal collection of guns. I wouldn’t fault anyone for choosing it for concealed carry especially if I lived in one of the stupid areas that limited capacity to 10 or less. The goal of a carry gun is to be able to score hits on targets as quickly and accurately as possible.

Reliability is #1, Ease of use, ergonomics for me is #2, practical accuracy is #3 and then it gets harder to rate the order of importance.

With so many good choices out there today, #4 and beyond is where the real decision making gets involved.

Nope, still being a dick. It’s math and physiology. That’s it. If it groups X at ten yards you do the math and with the same hold/skills/etc the group will open up a mathematically repeatable amount. 27 yards isn’t ballistically significant so it literally is as simple as what I just said. Mechanical accuracy at 10 yards can predict to small decimal places how much that gun will open up at 27 yards. So a cloverleaf at 10 will be a bigger and mathematically predictable cloverleaf at 27 yards.

I need it more accurate. Oh ok gunslinger.

I don't get to choose the range that I'll be required to shoot. I do get to choose the range that I shoot...at the range. The exception is something like steel night...when someone else chooses the range for the targets. A bad guy, whether a home invader or someone shooting up the local AMC theater while I'm trying to sort out the latest Matrix, chooses the range, not me.

If I'm going to shoot someone when they become available to shoot at 30 yards, it's much better than waiting until they arrive at 7 yards before I take the shot. That old "whites of their eyes" thing might have worked for Johnny Appleseed or folks from his era, but then he had one shot and a three minute reload.

I shoot at closer targets at the range because I can see the damn thing. I do shoot at farther targets, but most of the time if I'm shooting at something to train, it's closer. If I do have to shoot farther, same fundamentals apply, but I may take longer to make the shot. I can just hit the broad side of a barn up close. At farther distances, I base my scoring on minute-of-warehouse. I use the long side, because it makes me feel better.

Reliability- It needs to go bang
Performance- Can it function the way I need it too
Ergonomics- This is a conceal gun not a truck or, house gun, can't conceal a brick or Buttline Special, it needs to be appropriately sized.

While a P210 is the finest pistol I've personally shot, I would not carry it as a daily carry gun. Besides the above reasons, there's also a cost consideration.
Say you get into a shooting, police are going to confiscate your gun for evidence, and it goes to trail, your gun has been in evidence for likely over a year. Then depending on jurisdiction and the attitude of the DA & LE Dept, recovering your property may be another Odyssey. Finally you get it back...and there's scratches all over it because the cops manning the evidence locker finger-fucked it to no end and tossed it around on the rack it lived on.

The above happened to a friend and his Wilson Combat...an expensive lesson. He bought two G30's as his CCW

Reliability notwithstanding, since it's a core requirement, Weight, size, capacity.

Imagine that those requirements vary with location, in FL we have shorts season all year, wearing an overcoat, jacket, even a sports jacket is not common, so lightweight, thin, pocket size all heavily play into my decision.

Basically if you don't want to pick up the firearm and carry it all the time then it's not the right gun..

Top is Reliability, it has to have had no problems from the manufacturer and during training shoots.

Weight and dimensions are the next most important, basically for me a G19 sized gun is about max that I could conceal effectively.

My friend carries his G19X sometimes but mostly he carries his G43 and honestly the smaller the easier to carry all the time and it just tends to be what will work best(the smallest)

Third the ergonomics/trigger of the gun, can I fire this gun accurately?

Lastly I consider "firepower", in terms of total rounds per magazine and also round being used...for 15 years I thought .357SIG in the form of a Glock 32 (or .40 S&W with a G23 barrel) was the way to go and I still do like .357SIG but its just too pricey when nowadays their are great 9mm +P hollow points that have the same effect basically.



PS I saw 30 Super Carry for sale in Academy this weekend, are there guns in that caliber already?

Deal breaker on a carry gun
1) Unreliable
2) has a manual thumb safety
3) hard to find, exotic, or overly expensive caliber
4) too expensive. For me, I dont think I would want to spend more than $800 on a carry gun. I could stretch that a bit, but not too much.

I should also add that expensive guns for carry are a deal breaker. If I had to use it, the gun would be taken by the police for evidence or whatever. It would not be handled with care likely. It might even be lost to me forever. Wouldn't want that gun to be a Delta Gold Cup or a Wildey or some a SIG mastershop. It really needs to be a bargain Glock, SIG Pro, or my rescue HK P2000sk lem that I got for under 400.00 out the door.

I don't agree with the idea that we should have a cheap carry gun. Actually, a gun that I might defend my life or a loved one's life with should be the best gun I have. My second point is our ability, The act of firing a handgun is the same at 25 yards as it is at 10 yards. The way you present the firearm may be different but actually aiming and shooting is the same exercise. Staying in the black at 25 yards requires a higher level of skill than at 10 yards, I don't think anyone would argus that point. Isn't that the reason we practice, to improve our ability? ?

Besides being $400-600 more . What can a Sig210 Carry do that a P225/P6(about 4-500 now), or P239 can't? Over the years the P225/P6 and P239 have proven to be a reliable and accurate defensive tool.

And the P210 Carry......yeah!

For me reliability is a given for anything I buy, period.

Carry equals ease of carry. Night sights available that I like. Polymer. Choice of holsters. 10rd double stack mag with backup mag of higher capacity. And the carry weapon needs to be in a platform as I like to carry a subcompact and compact of the same platform. I run two, HK P30/sk and Beretta PX4 full/compact/subcompact.

And I tend to carry subcompacts in the summer and compacts in the winter.

For me: size and weight - can i carry it comfortably?

Does it fit my hand? Because then it leads to—can I shoot it? Can I hit what I’m aiming at?

For a thread that began with ridicule and someone referring to the scenario as only happening in a Steven Seagal wet dream, the thread has picked-up some momentum and I appreciate the responses.

As you would imagine, reliability was far and away the biggest deal killer. It does have to go bang.

Since I assumed reliability as a given, size and weight are the obvious choices to me, but once found, I have small hands. So, does it fit my hand takes on extra importance for me. I started shooting back in the day and Sigs, then, were too wide for my hand. SIG guy hit the nail on the head for me. Can I shoot it?" That's crucial for me because shot placement is everything according to studies." "Can I hit what I'm aiming at?" Given the scenario at the top, it becomes crucial. I'd drill down a little and substitute confidence because if I don't think I can make a shot, I probably won't under duress. I appreciate everyone's input, derisive and otherwise. It helped determine what is most important. I own a new Sig P210 carry. People had good reasons for questioning it as a carry gun. It lacks a light rail, the ability to add an optic, it only carries 8 rounds, and it's wide thus hard for some to conceal. Took the gun to the range. I walked out confident that I can hit what I'm aiming at. Thanks to SIGguy, Austin88 who said the same and the poster who mentioned that you don't get to choose your scenario and it has a bad habit of choosing you. Confidence is a big part of surviving gun fight-at least for me-it would be.

quote:

Originally posted by Walther Dude:
For a thread that began with ridicule and someone referring to the scenario as only happening in a Steven Seagal wet dream, the thread has picked-up some momentum and I appreciate the responses.

I believe that’s the other thread you started about taking a low-light, high-stress 30ft headshot in your kitchen.

Also that “someone” you are referring to is the owner of this forum. If you like it here, and you should because this place is amazing, you’ll want to take the time to learn his name.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:

quote:

Originally posted by Walther Dude:
For a thread that began with ridicule and someone referring to the scenario as only happening in a Steven Seagal wet dream, the thread has picked-up some momentum and I appreciate the responses.

I believe that’s the other thread you started about taking a low-light, high-stress 30ft headshot in your kitchen.

Also that “someone” you are referring to is the owner of this forum. If you like it here, and you should because this place is amazing, you’ll want to take the time to learn his name.

He’s right, you know…