Wonder what how many chicken sammiches I could get for a Browning Sweet Sixteen and an early Remington 1100?

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I would never even consider the idea of selling my 1301’s. It’s a viable tool in every toolbox.

I don’t know what world you live in. I tossed my 1301 from my toolbox after I tried to change a light bulb with it. And wound up changing waaaay more than the bulb. 1/5 Yelp review.

Well that the problem jones, you are using it wrong. I use it to remove light bulbs not install them. lol.

I have never been a 40 fan, but do not disparage those that prefer 40/45/357 etc.
I myself ( even when I was at the top of my form wining or high placing in national level competitions) could see I shot 9. Better than 40.

All the logic to support this sea change back to 9 makes a lot of sense ( my only current service size pistols I own are 9mm BTW)

My personal prediction is that at some point, there will be a well publicized event where a bad guy soaks up a pile of 9’s without stopping ( which will very likely be the result of other factors, not the caliber itself) and will result in a swing back to bigger calibers yet again.

quote:

Originally posted by captain127:


My personal prediction is that at some point, there will be a well publicized event where a bad guy soaks up a pile of 9’s without stopping ( which will very likely be the result of other factors, not the caliber itself) and will result in a swing back to bigger calibers yet again.

Truth.

LE agencies far and wide look for magic pills when it comes to hard skills. This profession sucks as a general rule when it comes to firearms training. Being able to shoot at a high level isn’t a requirement for instructors. Hell it’s not a requirement for most tactical teams.

Elmer Keith’s opinion was that police should have a big caliber 44 or 45.

But like Jones alluded to, most cops don’t shoot much, can’t qualify well or the department budget drives the ammo choice. Training to become good with heavy calibers costs money in ammo and time in training .

And frankly the one week of range time in the academy and once or twice for qual (70% or better) is expensive. It’s a skill that is easily lost and must be kept up. And officers taking money out of their pocket is usually the deciding line.
.

Just watch when a cop comes to a USPSA or IDPA match and watch how they do.

Hell I got more training time driving, than I did at the range and I felt I was at a great pro gun department. Because we had more wrecks than shootings. And departments throw training at high dollar events. If your department only shoots someone every 10 years on average, but has 10-20 wrecks annually, where do you thing they will spend training dollars?

A big problem I saw with the two agencies I worked for was the person they put in charge of training/equipment. If they have no knowledge or interest, the entire dept suffers or is put at risk. There are definitely a large number of cops who do not have interest in becoming a better shooter.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
Elmer Keith’s opinion was that police should have a big caliber 44 or 45.

But like Jones alluded to, most cops don’t shoot much, can’t qualify well or the department budget drives the ammo choice. Training to become good with heavy calibers costs money in ammo and time in training .

And frankly the one week of range time in the academy and once or twice for qual (70% or better) is expensive. It’s a skill that is easily lost and must be kept up. And officers taking money out of their pocket is usually the deciding line.
.

Just watch when a cop comes to a USPSA or IDPA match and watch how they do.

Hell I got more training time driving, than I did at the range and I felt I was at a great pro gun department. Because we had more wrecks than shootings. And departments throw training at high dollar events. If your department only shoots someone every 10 years on average, but has 10-20 wrecks annually, where do you thing they will spend training dollars?

I toted around a .45 for the better part of 20 years here in Chicago.
So did a lot of others. I recently (within the last 5 years or so) went back to 9mm.
Why? Because I get more rounds out of the 9mm, and the ballistics isn't much different with the new technology of bonded ammunition. Don't get me wrong, I still love my .45's!

The difference I found, and not saying this being narcissistic or a "show-off": I shoot.
I shoot a few thousand rounds a year. I have shot a few IDPA / IPSC rounds. I STFU, listen and try to learn when serious shooters show up. I was also taught by some of the best in the Marines.

Then I see a 5'3" 135lb female police officer, thinking she's Jane Wayne with her .45 and cant his the broadside of a barn from the inside. Horse shit fundamentals. ZERO control because of a horrible grip because the gun is just too big for her hand. Yet... gotta carry a .45!
I've seen Male Officers do the same damn thing. That EGO gets in the way when you tell them "The gun is too big for you."

Budget is another thing. Ammo gets to be expensive. Quality training gets to be expensive as well.
I'm not saying every cop needs to be at the level of Delta Force / SEAL Team 6 / Air Marshals, but dammmmm! Some of these qualifications are a little too easy.

And to quote the great JLJ, "Some cops aren't 'gun guys'"

When I become Emperor, shit is definitely going to change!

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by captain127:


LE agencies far and wide look for magic pills when it comes to hard skills. This profession sucks as a general rule when it comes to firearms training. Being able to shoot at a high level isn’t a requirement for instructors. Hell it’s not a requirement for most tactical teams.

Absolutely. I have compared the static range to having an NFL quarterback practice by throwing a football into a peach basket. Would this adequately prepare him for a game?

Also, you can't have officers running around doing burpees, dragging 150lb dummies and shooting if they can barely qual on a flat range. I have seen this all too often. Learn the basic skills before doing more.

But was she as cute as a bug in a rug?