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Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ranger3:
If Glock and Glock fans can keep this rumor going, less people will by them.
You're claiming that Glock the company, and people who like Glocks are the ones perpetuating these stories? This is based upon...what, please?

Let's see your evidence. You do have evidence to support your claim, don't you?
 
Posts: 99753 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Purveyor of Death
and Destruction
Picture of walker77
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In one of these "it just went off" incidents it was due to the use of P226 holsters.

ETA: It was Canadian special forces using a modified P226 holster.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5903723

And

https://soldiersystems.net/202...-cansofcom-incident/
 
Posts: 7218 | Location: Raymore, Missouri | Registered: June 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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The only Sig I have left at my old age worth carrying is P365xl with manual safety. I would absolutely not carry a P320 without a manual safety. Had a very early p320 just when they were first produced, and that one was a disaster of a gun, reliability-wise. I never trusted it enough to carry, so no discharges on my watch. But, I was standing next to a guy at the range whose P320 AXG went full-auto.
Anyway, I have been carrying Glocks since 80-th, so no problems with strikers, LOL.
 
Posts: 276 | Registered: November 20, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No
 
Posts: 1399 | Registered: October 30, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
quote:
Originally posted by ranger3:
If Glock and Glock fans can keep this rumor going, less people will by them.
You're claiming that Glock the company, and people who like Glocks are the ones perpetuating these stories? This is based upon...what, please?

Let's see your evidence. You do have evidence to support your claim, don't you?


Evidence? A google search will give you plenty. But I happen to be good friends/neighbors with a Glock employee who will tell every person he can about these mysterious P320 discharges inside the holsters. Thats why I called the DPS range to see if we have had any similar instances. We haven't.
 
Posts: 14 | Registered: November 05, 2022Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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everybody is a tad prejudice ... both Sig fans here as well as Glock fans....

It makes perfect since to me that when one of these AD with a Sig is reported that Glock folks would be more likely to pass it on to others... I'd be likely to do the same with a report about a Glock AD since I'm not a fan of them....it's human nature.

I did some research this morning on the Sig P230 and P232s and found out one of the changes was a firing pin block on the p232... even though the P230 has a block on the hammer that keeps it from hitting the back of the pin if dropped it seems in some world the firing pin can fly forward fast enough on its own and have enough force to set off a primer?
 
Posts: 3285 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
SIGSauer
Anthropologist
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Blume9mm:
everybody is a tad prejudice ... both Sig fans here as well as Glock fans....

It makes perfect since to me that when one of these AD with a Sig is reported that Glock folks would be more likely to pass it on to others... I'd be likely to do the same with a report about a Glock AD since I'm not a fan of them....it's human nature.

I did some research this morning on the Sig P230 and P232s and found out one of the changes was a firing pin block on the p232... even though the P230 has a block on the hammer that keeps it from hitting the back of the pin if dropped it seems in some world the firing pin can fly forward fast enough on its own and have enough force to set off a primer?


Let´s be a little more specific. what has been changed in the firing pin safet block?

The firig pin safety a block that is lifted via the trigger operation.If the trigger is not operated the firing pin is blocked. Nothing happens just like that. The hammer has nothing to do with it. Even if the hammer strikes, nothing happens if the trigger is not pulled.
The patent for this has been around since 1938 and has proven itself.
 
Posts: 3736 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: January 24, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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Large, multiple plaintiff lawsuit filed against SIG Sauer. It enumerates a large number of uncommanded discharge allegations involving the P320.

https://storage.courtlistener....ts.nhd.60338.1.0.pdf

 
Posts: 21034 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
superior firepower
Picture of parabellum
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Blume9mm:
everybody is a tad prejudice ... both Sig fans here as well as Glock fans....
You speak for yourself and leave it at that.

The idea that "Glock fans" are perpetuating these stories, out of a sense of...what? Revenge? It's damn silly. Glock the company, Glock's product, and Glock owners- none of these have a thing to do with SIG-Sauer's woes with the P320. Good grief.
 
Posts: 99753 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"Trained and certified gun owners".
Show me the certifications, please! And tell where I go to get a certification.
As of 2019, 1 million plus 320s were sold. Since then, how many more have been sold? If there were widespread unintentional discharges, we would have heard of it by now.
Todays safety tip: Try not to shoot yourself.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 14265 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
E tan e epi tas
Picture of cslinger
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I mean if you are bringing suit are ya gonna say a bunch of untrained yokels managed to shoot they’selves or are you going to drive home that they are credentialed trained folks or folks who “trained” to get a CCW etc.


"Guns are tools. The only weapon ever created was man."
 
Posts: 6733 | Location: On the water | Registered: July 25, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
ammoholic
Picture of drtenb330
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To put into context, the most important concern to those who carry all the time is reliability.
Sig (and others) have a high probability to work, everything else is noise. The issue of ND's can and has been beaten to death. No matter what your perspective is, if you press that trigger on purpose, the gun will go bang.

Over the years, most gun companies have had issues. Sig as a whole works to fix, improve, and ensure its reliability.

Sig also, in my experience, has excellent customer service.

My personal experiences have always been pleasant, and issues have always been resolved.

If you shoot a lot, you will encounter issues. Every company has QC issues, every company takes hits from competitors or the public. The true measure is how a company reacts to their problems. Not PR, but physically.

There is a good reason so many rely on Sigs (and why other people rely on other companies). In the end, Sig is one of the few companies that work forward to provide reliability. When needed, they'll perform.
 
Posts: 1601 | Location: Miami Beach, Florida | Registered: December 26, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Disturbing, to me, is the number that appear to have fired while in a holster.
 
Posts: 851 | Location: High desert. Nevada | Registered: April 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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One of the comments on a YouTube channel I follow was that there have been over 100 complaints of spontaneous discharges with the P320. I didn’t bother responding there but my immediate thought was that a lot more than 100 people have seen ghosts or been cursed by witches. (Reading a book about the latter right now. Seemed pretty legitimate to the people who hanged and burned their neighbors.)

So I guess that if the number of claims is an indication of the validity of a claim, then why don’t we still believe in ghosts or bewitching sorcerers—or do we? Did any of those guns go off in the holster while someone was having tea with Sasquatch or being probed on the mother ship? Are they more likely to occur when sailing through the Bermuda Triangle or visiting the Mystery Spot?




7/93
 
Posts: 46130 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
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At the end of the day it still comes down to repeatability. It's a mechanical device...it's got moving pieces that work together to achieve a specific outcome. If a gun has a condition that allows it to discharge without outside input, there should be a mechanically repeatable condition that can be shown to have caused this.

This was the case with the pre-upgrade drop safety issues...there was an actual problem with the design that could be and was widely replicated and demonstrated. So far nobody has been able to do that with these post-upgrade guns that are supposedly firing on their own, which leads me to the logical conclusion that these discharges have to be caused by outside forces acting on the gun.
 
Posts: 6326 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
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Picture of parabellum
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I do not believe any of these stories about the P320 discharging spontaneously. Those people who are claiming that their P320 discharged without the trigger being pulled- sorry, I don't believe it.

What I do believe is that because the P320 lacks a safety blade (or 'tab' as some call it) in its trigger, the pistol is more susceptible to unintentional discharges than other stiker-fired pistols which do have a bladed trigger.

So, these unintentional discharges come down to one of two things- either the person holding or wearing a P320 pulled the trigger (in which case, a safety blade would make no difference), or the trigger of the P320 snagged on something and got pushed enough to fire the pistol (in which case the absent safety blade may have made all the difference).
 
Posts: 99753 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Big Stack
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Or dropped.

The P320 had acknowledged drop fire problems. This was directly related to lack of the trigger tab safety. For years I wondered why Glock invented the trigger tab. It really didn't work well as a safety. Anything that would pull the trigger would deactivate the safety, either a finger or some sort of FOD. Then someone told me about the trigger inertia firing issue, and how the tab addressed that. I was highly skeptical that this was a real issue. Then the P320 came around, without the trigger tab safety, and low and behold, it had a drop fire problem.

With the recal...er...voluntary upgrade, SIG supposedly dealt with this. But they did it without adding a trigger tab, and without stiffening up the trigger. So who know how effective the change really is.

quote:
Originally posted by parabellum:
<snip>

So, these unintentional discharges come down to one of two things- either the person holding or wearing a P320 pulled the trigger (in which case, a safety blade would make no difference), or the trigger of the P320 snagged on something and got pushed enough to fire the pistol (in which case the absent safety blade may have made all the difference).
 
Posts: 21034 | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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The inertia problem was solved by lightening the P320 trigger and was evidently effective because no one I know of is demonstrating that the gun will fire by dropping in the same way as those with original heavier triggers.

The claims these days is that the P320s are firing by themselves without the triggers being pulled, and no mention of dropping. The tab can hardly be a factor if people are claiming that the gun just goes off by itself without the trigger being pulled. (And to reiterate, the P320 striker is blocked unless the trigger is pulled to move the striker safety out of the way. Mechanical fact, not superstition.)

Anecdotally, the Glock trigger tab was added merely to prevent the same sort of inertia firing if the gun were dropped, and of course it does nothing to prevent the gun from discharging if the trigger is pulled by a finger, clothing drawstring, or fold of flimsy holster leather. It might serve to prevent the trigger from being pulled in some limited situations, but for decades there have been countless unintentional discharges with Glocks due to their triggers being pulled by one of many different means. We just don’t hear about them as much.




7/93
 
Posts: 46130 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
So I guess that if the number of claims is an indication of the validity of a claim, then why don’t we still believe in ghosts or bewitching sorcerers—or do we? Did any of those guns go off in the holster while someone was having tea with Sasquatch or being probed on the mother ship? Are they more likely to occur when sailing through the Bermuda Triangle or visiting the Mystery Spot?

One of the greatest weaknesses of American tort law is that courts started accepting statistical arguments as evidence rather than insisting on admitting only physically provable evidence.

SIG is making big money off of the basic 320 design, and everyone can see that - and that, in turn, brings both the vultures and the would-be vultures out of the woodwork.
 
Posts: 26946 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Peace through
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Picture of parabellum
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quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
Or dropped.
Does this suit include claims of P320s firing when dropped?
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Anecdotally, the Glock trigger tab was added merely to prevent the same sort of inertia firing if the gun were dropped, and of course it does nothing to prevent the gun from discharging if the trigger is pulled by a finger, clothing drawstring, or fold of flimsy holster leather. It might serve to prevent the trigger from being pulled in some limited situations, but for decades there have been countless unintentional discharges with Glocks due to their triggers being pulled by one of many different means. We just don’t hear about them as much.
Of course you've had the opportunity to examine Glocks closely, so you've seen that the safety blade on the trigger is quite thin and an object would have to go through complex motion inside the trigger guard for the trigger safety to be disengaged, followed by a press of the trigger. Try it. That trigger safety is not there only to prevent interial firing.

Speaking for myself, I would never carry a Glock which had the blade removed from the trigger, and for the same reason that savvy Glock owners will never carry a Glock without the trigger guard covered on both sides.
 
Posts: 99753 | Registered: January 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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