As an M.P. i had to shoot both and if given the choice I'd pick a 1911 every time. Most active duty issues were worn and rebuilt multiple times, but the majority in guard and reserve units were still relatively pristine. With desert shield i bought a para ordnance lower along with a surplus IMI slide and barrel that was supposed to be used in rebuilding 1911 stocks before they were dropped, case of beer to our armorer and i had a fitted .45 that still groups as good as it gets

If we're talking about the exact firearms issued, then it's like the South Park episode where every vote comes down to a giant douche vs a turd sandwich. They're both awful for different reasons. I'd still take the 1911 because the mags are easier to load and I don't like slide mounted controls.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:
M1911 vs M9 Beretta: The battle of the best combat pistol

Which hip blaster reigns supreme?

BY JOSHUA SKOVLUND | PUBLISHED JAN 22, 2024 9:42 PM EST

Two combat pistols ruled in different eras, though some units continued using their favorite. The M1911 is the OG pistol that’s been used in combat from 1911 well into the 2020s. The Beretta M9 pistol was introduced to the ranks as a replacement for the M1911 starting in 1985.

It wasn’t until recently that both pistols were removed from service and replaced with the more modern Sig Sauer M17, M18, and MK25 pistols. Though they have been phased out, the pistols have remained a favorite for soldiers and gun enthusiasts alike. But which one is actually the best?

Kyle Lamb has extensive experience with both pistols but argues they have served their purpose in combat tenfold. But when pressed on what he would take into combat, his answer may surprise you.

Fresh out of the box, with no alterations, Lamb thinks the M9 is better than the M1911. Lamb explained how a rack-grade 1911 will rattle if you shake it because of manufacturing missteps, whereas the M9 is a solid-built pistol, but a rack-grade trigger leaves a lot to be desired. The trigger issue doesn’t outweigh the inaccuracy of the rack-grade 1911, though...

Complete article:

https://taskandpurpose.com/mil...-best-combat-pistol/

I will simply point out that the only plce you can purchase "rack grade" 1911 pistols today are from the CMP. Any other 1911 today will surpass those old beaters with flying colors. Basically today's 1911's are a heck of a lot better that what he is claiming.

I will also state that my personal experience with Beretta Shotguns is that their Quality has been in the toilet since Covid. I fully expect that probably 5% of any Beretta made today has functional defects such as bad springs or triggers that have a lot of drag because they are interference fit into the trigger group. Yeah I am more that just a bit disappointed in Beretta, 11,500 dollars spent on 2 shotguns and one barrel set and every single item required the attention of a gunsmith to get them working.

My obvious choice is the 1911 because I'm quite certain that they will work right out of the box.

It would only be a fair test if we could get a brand new M1911 from 1911 vs a new M9 from Italy in 1985. On the same token of Kyle Lamb complaining about the worn out 1911s, I can't think of a new pistol made today that I would not take over the same abused worn out M9s.

From a unit and operational perspective, I would choose ANYTHING over a 1911.

There’s a reason why the die hard outfits don’t use them any longer.

Tradition. 1911 was my sidearm in the Navy in the 1950's.

The author is correct, the 320 is a superior platform. From a practical standpoint, I don't see how anyone - without an emotional or personal experience - could argue otherwise.

That being said, I love what the 1911 has done for handguns the world over. I love its history, I love its caliber, and I love how accurately it represented American exceptionalism for so many decades...but I own, shoot, and enjoy the 92.

I carried the Beretta M9 and a Springfield 1911. I'd take the 1911. (That being said, the 1911 was worked on by some guys at Quantico that knew what they were doing.)
Yeah, I shoot the Beretta M9 pretty accurately, I was just not a big fan of their trigger, and I've always been a big fan of the .45 Cal. Yes, I know that round technology, especially with the 9mm has come a long way, and I switched my Duty Weapon to a 9mm.

I've been an armorer for a number of years, seen my share of surprising things. And I've observed people for most of my 54 years, leaning from them, and eventually learning what not to be. They are some funny, fickle creatures.

Over that time I've learned what I feel comfortable relying on for a ccw. The 1911 isn't at the top of the list. Sorry, fanbois.
The top of my list contains, in no certain order, HK P series and USP, Sig Arms P series, Beretta 92F series.

I carry armorers certificates for HK and Glock, self taught on Beretta and 1911. Even competed with 1911 type pistols for many years and if I were to complete again, I'd reach for the 1911. But that's for games, not life or death.

I've never had to repair a broken HK pistol but for a single instance where the owner forced the slide open on a locked USP45c and broke the "trigger lock".
I've never had to repair a broken 92F, either defective or induced. Did have a bone dry Inox that wouldn't run, customer came in complaining, I oiled the pistol then showed him it worked perfectly on the range.

I've repaired a large number of Glocks over the years. Lot's of broken pieces. Even a couple I couldn't repair and had to send to the factory just to simply get them apart.

I've had to repair a few 1911 types but most of my 1911 work has been simple reliability jobs because the gun would "jam" or "stove pipe" some ammo. Granted, the majority of 1911 types today will run OOB with nearly any ammo fed to it, but not all.

When JB designed the pistol he did so with 230gr hardball ammo in mind. That's it. If it will run anything else, that's a bonus and they can be made to run other ammo very well. It's not normal for an OOB 1911 to run 100% unless it's a highly refined and messaged gun from the get go. I'd still not count on one, just as with any other ccw, until I saw 500 rounds of my favorite ammo fed and fired successfully.

I've never had an HK refuse to run any ammo I fed it right OOB.

I've never had a 92F refuse to run any ammo I fed it right OOB.

I've never had a Sig refuse to run any ammo I fed it right OOB.

To it's credit, I've never had a Glock refuse to feed any ammo I've fed it right OOB.

Can't say that for the 1911.

Since the thread is about the 1911 vs 92FS, I'd choose the 92FS, for what should be obvious reasons. Haters gonna hate, I can't stop that and arguing about it is like trying to tell a liberal, well, anything. They'd argue with God.

I live by my experiences and a few sought out and reviewed sources of information. Everyone must do the same and that may give them different results than mine.

I was issued the 1911 in W Germany in 1987-89. Sure it rattled but other than elevation it would hit a man size target at the distances I would need it.

1990 for prep to Desert Storm I was issued the M9 (Ft Riley). Got to theater as was issued 5 rounds. So no real help if I were to rely on it.

So in the end I don't care cause its a tool. For pure rose tinted glasses / nostalgia I would pick up a 1911.

Something also to consider for “regular joes” the military mandated carry of a 1911 on an empty chamber, requiring you to rack the gun before firing. The beretta was carried chambered as SOP.
That single reason alone ( I know not the way any knowledgeable shooter Carries a 1911) would put the beretta far ahead in the comparison.

I carried both the 1911 & the M9 in the CG. I was an armorer for the M9 and Sig P229DAK. I’ve used the p226 when I was a cop and I carried a G19 off duty. I used an STI EDGE (2011) in gun games. I carry a Ruger 1911 CDR sized 1911 now for EDC.

The rattling POS 1911 I was issued in the CG was a far cry from any 1911 made today. But I shot EX with it so there’s something.

If I had to go to war, I’d take a G19-nothing stops them, they always work in my experience. Mags are everywhere and so is ammo. Otherwise I’d carry the 1911

For those who favor the 1911...remember, we're talking about rack-grade milspec guns here, not your modern commercial or custom product. I had a '43 Remington Rand through LESO for a while, and while it was cool as heck, it was unreliable, ammo picky (just forget about running JHP!), and bit the web of my hand every time I shot it. The sights were also basically worthless, especially in any kind of low-light situation. It was far worse in every way than even my low-rent, MIM-infested Springfield Loaded.

Also, we're talking about the military, so hundreds of thousands if not millions of guns, that have to be serviced and maintained. It's far easier to replace the occasional locking block or trigger bar spring than have to hand-fit extractors, safety levers, takedown levers, barrel links, etc.

I do appreciate the 1911, and would love to someday own a surplus USGI gun of my own. But from a practical perspective the Beretta was an improvement in pretty much every way.

Yea this is easy. Beretta.

I have both the 92FS and the Colt 1911. In fact, the 1911 was the very first firearm I purchased over 40 years ago, and I still have it. I carried it concealed for many years, and also carried the 92FS as an on-duty sidearm while an LEO for nearly 20 years.

I was an armorer for Beretta, Walther, Glock, SIG & Colt and have shooting & maintenance experience across all of these platforms.

My personal preference, and it's only that, is for the 92FS. FOR ME, the 1911 doesn't possess a single advantage over the Beretta, although I do love both pistols.

I was forced to carry a Beretta during my mil service years, I hated it. It did not fit my hand well and it was predisposed to choking in adverse weather. Once I started working some contract jobs I carried a Springfield TRP Operator and a Dan Wesson Specialist both were 100% reliable in all conditions, even wet sand. They were more ergonomic and absurdly accurate. The only area where the Beretta was better was capacity. I knew guys who kept the safeties off on their issed Beretta's because they were so awkward to manipulate in a hurry. Taurus had a better design with a thumb safety

quote:

I knew guys who kept the safeties off on their issed Beretta's because they were so awkward to manipulate in a hurry.

Some of that was just poor training doctrine. The military and a lot of PDs often failed to teach the optimum way to deal with that lever. I watched a video of Ernest Langdon explaining it a few years back, and his method makes a lot of sense. You swipe it off on a downstroke with your thumb...bump it and let the spring do the rest. It's the same basic motion as a 1911 safety.

I agree that the manual safety design on a 1911 is still a little easier to operate consistently under pressure. I personally prefer the "G" decocker-only 92s, to avoid having to deal with a manual safety at all, but since we're talking mil-spec that wouldn't have been an option.

For me its about ergonomics. The 1911 just fits my hand better.
Beretta fun fact: The design features of the 92 (open slide, slide mounted safety/decocker and the locking block) are copied from the Walther P38.

Compare apples to apples. New 1911 to new M9. For me (short fat fingers) the M9 does not fit my hand. For non combat carry (CCW) the 1911 wins hands down IMHO.
Rod

Always pisses me off when some schmuck tells me he can take the slide off my Beretta before I can shoot him with it. I challenge anyone to try and did so with a guy I used to work with. I had about had it with the guy so after about the 100th time he made the claim I unloaded my side arm, made my challenge, and pointed the gun at him center mass about three feet away.
"Now, take the slide off my weapon." He reached and I even let him touch the gun. And as soon as he got there I slapped the shit out him with my off hand, even hurt my hand so he had to see stars. At the same time I dropped the hammer on him.
He never made the claim again. I guess he figured out just because some actor in a controlled setting with as many Mulligans as he needs to get it right on a movie set can do it, doesn't mean it really happens.