quote:

Nobody wants to discuss a rumored 6,000 round service life of current .357 SIGs

I have a 226 and 229 with combined roughly 40K .357 sig rounds through them. I've noticed no loss of accuracy with either one although i'm by no means a sharpshooter. Reasonably proficient with 80% of my shooting at 7 - 15 yards. I religiously send each pistol back to SIG for a complete teardown, rehab and check every 5,000 rounds. I don't recall having a failure of any kind with either, excluding a failure to feed once or twice with the 229 using a .40 barrel.

I cracked the frame on a P229 .357 about 12 years ago at about the 3200 round mark. Sig offered to replace the pistol in .40. Loved the round, very accurate, flat shooting but loud as hell and expensive.
Ended up getting new frame, and trading off. Then decided to only shoot .357 from Glock platform. Had 31, 32, and 33 at one point or another ( including 31C and 32C ) but after the pounding the .357 put on the pistols, and always scrounging to find affordable factory ammo i just decided the better ballistics ( and they are better than 9mm) did not matter for what I did which was basically target shoot. I could make the same holes in paper for less money and less punishment in the pistol.
Great round and lots of solid guns for it but in my view it serves a very specific set of needs and if you don't have one of those needs there are better options.
Just my opinion

quote:

Originally posted by YVK:
I am no FAM, which is why I used "rumored". Posted by a diplomatic security service officer on another site, referring to FAMs service weapons. I am open to your info just as much. Pretty much equal weight.

That said, when I read a bunch of posts with "outbid", "lower cost", "one big reason cost", "garbage gun", "garbage caliber", without any reflection on what actual gun/group of guns were selected, what do they offer over vs lose to what they are replacing, what was the selection process, what it replaced and how that compares to 229, I get a predictable reaction of this discussion being no better in content than any rumors I've heard.

You don't get to demand reflection while misquoting everyone out of context.

quote:

Originally posted by rottweiler:

You don't get to demand reflection while misquoting everyone out of context.

Well, that's your quote below. English is not a native language, so perhaps I am missing contextual nuances of "garbage" X 2 in a one sentence, especially when it comes to a proven and vetted gun and caliber. Your disclaimers of having been issued a Glock or defending the 9 for so many years don't really do much to offset the attitude.

That said, I don't demand anything. This a recreational website, I treat it as such.

quote:

Originally posted by rottweiler:
Compared to 357 Sig Pistols, I think the Secret Service is switching to a garbage gun in a garbage caliber.

Very little difference in actual terminal performance between 9mm and .357 SIG. there was, but the difference is much less. This, plus the 9mm having better times and control has pretty much made the .357 SIG obsolete as a standard issue.

A lighter, Soft point .357 in a PDW type firearm might be useful in specialized role as long as it would hold together for enough penetration.

The ATK guys pretty much determined there is very little wound pattern difference with velocity until you get to 2200 FPS.

CBP tested both the G19Gen5 MOS and the G47 to 10k rounds with no degradation in accuracy found. The ammunition used was a mixture of Winchester 147 grain SXT and Speer Gold Dot 124 grain +P. There were also zero malfunctions noted.

I carry this very pistol (19.5 MPS) with a Trijicon RMR on duty. It’s a really great platform.

As far as selling the old P229’s - while they’re great guns - I’d never buy one. The USSS as well as Air Marshall’s shoot the @(&!! out of them. I wouldn’t trust it to have much life left. And with everything going on right now - I do t think it’s great move to sell them at suction.

I will bank on jljones.

I hope the forthcoming problems are not 320 related. We already have a hard time selling them. And we are sitting on around 20 examples. Other than the X5 and M17 we haven't sold a 320 in a few months. Regards 18DAI

Quick LE gun story. In my State the State Police bought P226 DAK and had issues, they went to M&P45. Transit Police issued M&P45 had "had issues" and went to P220. Take LE firearm selection with a grain of salt.

quote:

Originally posted by 10round:
Quick LE gun story. In my State the State Police bought P226 DAK and had issues, they went to M&P45. Transit Police issued M&P45 had "had issues" and went to P220. Take LE firearm selection with a grain of salt.

BAMMMM! #truth.

None of the institutions are impeccable, none of the choices are 100 percent above board.

quote:

Originally posted by 10round:
Quick LE gun story. In my State the State Police bought P226 DAK and had issues, they went to M&P45. Transit Police issued M&P45 had "had issues" and went to P220. Take LE firearm selection with a grain of salt.

Transit cops have been carrying Glocks since 2016 with no issues.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by 10round:
Quick LE gun story. In my State the State Police bought P226 DAK and had issues, they went to M&P45. Transit Police issued M&P45 had "had issues" and went to P220. Take LE firearm selection with a grain of salt.

BAMMMM! #truth.

None of the institutions are impeccable, none of the choices are 100 percent above board.

So true. I’ve seen selections get pushed for cost, brand bias, or ignorance. That being said, you can do all your research, pick what you truly believe is the “best” gun you can find, and still get lemons. Even if it’s 5% the nay sayers will play it up like it’s 50%.

Moral of the story - no good deed goes unpunished.

quote:

Originally posted by 10round:
Take LE firearm selection with a grain of salt.

Exactly. That said, I think their selection will serve them well for years.

quote:

Originally posted by smithnsig:
The ATK guys pretty much determined there is very little wound pattern difference with velocity until you get to 2200 FPS.

This is probably the most significant revelation in ballistics I have seen in the past 15 years - essentially that temporary wound channel means very little in low velocity rounds - and yet nobody seems to talk about it. Lots of people saying how current 9mm duty rounds "have improved" and whatever, but this very significant observation is largely overlooked.

Nuthin' wrong with the secret service using the 9mm

Yep, that dude was "Chuck Norris" ready. Cool retro pic.

Well...that's sad. I always liked the "special" LE outfits that went all out with firearm selections...

The FBI with the Smith & Wesson 1076.
The New Jersey State Police with the HK P7M8.
The US Park Police with the HK P7M13. (Seriously...who signed off on that one...)

And USSS with their 357s...



That being said the Glock G19 (M/Gen5) is a great pistol.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
I would think .357SIG is basically on life support. People talk about .40 but there are bajillions of .40 handguns out there and .357SIG was always just this side of a niche cartridge at best.

I really hope not, but I expect you're right. I really REALLY enjoy .357 Sig. Just a great round.

I thought the USSS would’ve gone to the P-228/M11, as they had before.

In my opinion the move to 9mm from .357 Sig and 40 cal is largely driven by 1). The cost of ammunition, and 2). The extended training time and ammo cost of training new recruits with the snappier calibers. It's in the economics. And heavier recoiling calibers affect service life. I agree that the 9mm bullet performance has improved greatly in the past 20 years, especially with +P and +P+ loads, but you can't ignore the physics. On the other hand, there is little doubt that shot placement in training with recruits is better with the 9mm. There went the FBI and almost everyone else followed.