Disclosure: retired after 30 years of active duty, including 5 of those on loan as a federal LEO, and I have never shot anyone (or at anyone with live ammo...used plenty of less than lethal stuff).

That notwithstanding, the most comical/effective experience I have ever heard of is when a family was gathered in their home discussing dinner plans, a thug broke through the front door hoping to get away with something nefarious - one particularly strong armed family member had an intact large can of chili and chucked it at the perp, hard. The punk woke up to the long arm of the law all tied up. I'm not sure what caliber a chili can is, but damn...

Another short anecdote was the diminutive ex-wife armed with a .22lr revolver - she had a crazed ex who busted down her door in a fit of rage (repeated offender, she had more than once before been battered) - 5 rapid shots center mass and he dropped like an anvil in less than two quick steps.

quote:

Originally posted by dpast32:
Having nothing else to do at the moment, I'll say it ONE more time, for all of those who I appear to have made upset.

You seem to overestimate your influence on others with your opinions. I don't see anyone who is upset in this thread. What I am, though, is fed up with the pedantics and posturing, which is why I put the brakes on it. If you want to envision I or others chewing on the end of their keyboard or phoning mommy to tell her all about it, suit yourself.

This is the second time you've come out with this "hurt feelings" stuff in this thread, so if blame can be assigned for the direction of this thread, you share in it.

quote:

Originally posted by Sheepdogged:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
You'll not lecture me or the other members of this forum on how to behave.

I just did. Twice. And I didn't lecture anyone else, just you because you were rude, so deal with it. Learn how to talk to people constructively who don't see things the way you do.

Test Pilot, is that you?

Over the course of my LE career, I’ve seen people who have been shot with 9mm, .40,.22,.25 and .380(that I can recall). The ones that were DRT were with the smaller calibers. The ones that were upright and talking? Shot with .40 and 9mm. The difference? Shot placement. The people shot with the 9mm and .40 incurred wounds in non vital areas.

Shot placement is key. Use the largest caliber you can reliably hit center mass with. For most of us, that’s 9mm. My .02.

quote:

Originally posted by sw4566:
Shot placement is key. Use the largest caliber you can reliably hit center mass with. For most of us, that’s 9mm. My .02.

Yes, the "other factors not considered by some" factor.

But, to satisfy some, let's complicate matters:



so



and



therefore

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:

quote:

Originally posted by Sheepdogged:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
You'll not lecture me or the other members of this forum on how to behave.

I just did. Twice. And I didn't lecture anyone else, just you because you were rude, so deal with it. Learn how to talk to people constructively who don't see things the way you do.

Test Pilot, is that you?

Man, there's a name I haven't heard in a long time.

Hey, me too ! I play for a little while, throw some facts out there, & this being our great Country, you may either believe them, or not, as you wish. I 'usually ' avoid arguing here in Forums, not do I ever get really upset, as it really doesn't solve anything. I've spent way too many shifts arguing with people who have an IQ of my shoe size, which just for the record is 9.5 ! I report what I've learned, and or surmised over the years, merely in the hope that just maybe it will assist someone with making an informed decision. And again, if anyone carefully reads my Posts, both here & on other subject related Forums, they should see that I advocate using whichever weapon you handle most accurately. As we all tend to agree, in the end, it 'usually', though not always comes down to shot placement. I NEVER stated that the 9x19 NATO is an ineffective caliber / loading. I simply pointed out that the .357 Sig caliber, is IMHO a more powerful & effective option. The ballistics are there for all to see. It usually [ with some exceptions of course ] produces between 200 - 250+/- FPS over the 9mm NATO loading, & is an extremely accurate cartridge. Also, due to it's case design, it also offers enhanced feed reliability. Those are undeniable facts. I'm sorry if they annoy anyone, but such data is available for all to see. I mean we can can get into ALL sorts of debates regarding K.E., M.E., Hydrostatic Shock, Primary, Temporary, & Terciary Cavitaion, & on & on. Now, if we go with the 'what's adequte' theory, that could lead us all over the place. Yes some calibers carry more ammunition, that's correct. So if all we needed to focus on was / is; adequate performance in most scenarios, weapon capacity, weapon controllability, & such, why don't they issue the Kel-Tec P30 ( model # may not be correct ) in .22 WMR. It does indeed meet many of the stated requirements, right ? Or, perhaps the old Czech M61 Scorpion, 7.65mm .32 ACP SMG / PDW ? I think you get where I'm going here. There's a intense amount of thought & study which 'should' go into such an decision effecting an extremely large portion of U.S. Federal, & presumably Local L.E. also. HOPEFULLY the choice will work out as intended, & we'll all get along & learn to accept it. AND, as far as forensic ballistics research goes, I relatively certain that all of the major players within the 'duty ammunition' R & D Dept.'s won't be resting on their laurels, but rather furthering their development of an even more effective 9mm loading. I'm just happy with the fact that I can choose anything I wish to, provided of course I can qualify with it. And, as a personal requirement of I can't quality with at least a 240, out of 250, I will not carry it. I observed way too many people that just manage to scoot by with an 167 or so, where 165 was minimum score. That my friends would, & still does scare me. And ohh it's not actually relevant to this particular discussion, but it does lend into to the overall mindset of the author, me. I have to admit that I have always been a fan of somewhat 'obscure', & or non-mainstream calibers !! There, I admitted it ! In fact, my all time favorite New England area 'woods gun' is my late 1970's manufactured SAVAGE Model 99A in .358 Winchester. [ w/ a beautiful 1957 mfg. Lyman Rear Peep. ] So, if I'm said to be a fan of slightly older designs, or technology, well I plead guilty as charged. OK Folks, it's time to reheat my coffee, yet again !

Best, dpast32

OK, super. You're not upset. I'm not upset. No one's upset. That's great.

Now, if you can just throw in some line breaks or paragraphs to make your posts easier to read, all will be damn near perfect.

The format is my fault. I'm typing on my little Kindle Tablet, which is really a pain. Between the little input screen, & the darn anto-correct feature, it's a nightmare. I get carried away while writing too, but constructive criticism received & accepted. I just hate going into my office room to post, as opposed to sitting in my recliner !!

Best, dpast32

quote:

Originally posted by evolution:
Rumor is the armed pilots will also getting new guns. Be interesting to see if they get what the FAM’s get or something else.

Aahhh, the Federal Flight Deck Officers--FFDO's--The "Forgotten Cowboys" in all this...

quote:

Originally posted by mikey357:

quote:

Originally posted by evolution:
Rumor is the armed pilots will also getting new guns. Be interesting to see if they get what the FAM’s get or something else.

Aahhh, the Federal Flight Deck Officers--FFDO's--The "Forgotten Cowboys" in all this...

They deserve an awful lot of credit for being a part of that program.

Yes, especially since the airlines threaten them with dismissal over any infraction of the rules. I wouldn't participate in the program due to the attitude of most of the carriers.

Reading the Military Times article, they mention the G47 is able to use the slide of a 19 but not 17.
With that, if you can use a 19 slide on a 26, then a 47 slide could work on a 26? (if it were offered to the public)

As a long time fan of the .357Sig it's of course a bummer to see US Government agencies turning away from it. Oh well, Sig mostly turned away from it many, many years ago. The trick for people like me who shoot and love .357Sig is to be a very careful shopper. Then buy the ammo the moment you see a good deal on it. Many times over the years I've paid no more than 10% over 9mm prices. I've seen stores with the same box of .357Sig ammo priced from $20.00 to $43.00! Though in today's market, ammo deals of any kind are few and far between.

Who knows, with seemingly 'everyone' on the 9mm bandwagon, competition for what .357Sig ammo is available 'could' go down a bit. Like other .357Sig fans, it's good to already have a near lifetime supply.

quote:

Yes, the "other factors not considered by some" factor.

But, to satisfy some, let's complicate matters:



so



and



therefore

I don't understand a bit of the formulas posted but I still find them brilliant. Thank you sir.

My personal experience. In 2000 we switched from P226 in 9mm to P229 in 357 Sig. Qual scores remained the same for the veteran officers. Moving forward with new hires, some had trouble qualifying and scores went down. 2012, P229's breaking down due to neglect at the armorer level. We transition to Gen 4 G22 pistols. Scores went up and for the most part, no problems with semi annual quals. 2020, transitioned to Gen 5 G17 and scores went way up. One officer told me that he actually enjoys shooting this pistol. This breakdown of equipment and scores isn't linear as the old administration had no ammo limits but from 2012 on the ammunition and training declined every year. Just my experience on dept. level handgun choices. I've enjoyed every pistol but really miss our P226s.