Been watching some Youtube videos about handguns that were technical and/or marketing flops. These would include the Colt All-American 2000 and the Colt Double Eagle, the Remington R51 and RP9/45, and Walther PPX and Creed. The list goes on, I'm sure.

I have a PPX and it's a reliable and accurate gun, but a sales disappointment for Walther. Guess it was too blocky and ugly to succeed.

With regard to SIG, was the P250 considered a flop or did it just suffer from bad marketing? I've personally never handled one.

In the late 80's Colt essentially did a good thing by marketing the Delta Elite in 10mm. They probably took the round off of life support, which allowed Glock and S&W time to catch up with their own 10mm guns, and likely in an indirect way contributing to the eventual creation of the .40 S&W cartridge.

That said that All American 2000 was ridiculous! I could imagine the meetings going on in Hartford in the late 80's with those guys getting high on their own supply so to speak. A bunch of them really thought that the All American 2000 was going to be competitive in the "wonder 9" game with the Beretta 92F, 3rd Generation Smiths, Sigs, and that Austrian upstart plastic gun!

As to the P250. I actually liked the gun a lot. I just never got around to purchasing one. A very good long time friend of mine has been basically Team Sig for the last four decades, and his primary carry is still a mid sized 9mm P250.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sig Sauer: For Hire,

I don't know that I'd consider the P250 a flop, but I think it came out late enough that SIG should have seen that striker-fired designs were going to become the future with respect to market share and popularity.

The PPX was IMO an excellent gun for the money, more so than almost anything else regularly in its price range, and the only worthwhile budget Walther to date.

I have a P250 and I love it. I never got into the modules but it is an accurate gun. I got some snickers at the range when I brought it, but heck, I love it.

Hudson/DD H9
Beretta APX (domestically)
HK CC9
Glock 44
Every Keltec since the P32
The new double stack Kahr 9mm

Kimber's first attempt at a 1911 in 10mm.

It was so shitty I considered throwing it on the roof so I wouldn't have to f+(< with it any more.

Going by all the feedback I've heard, the Taurus TS9 appears to be a decent gun but it came and went from the US market fairly quickly.

The Steyr M/C/L/S pistols were generally a commercial failure.

Funny enough, they're actually my all-time favorite in the prolific "Glock clone" (polymer frame, striker-fired, SIG Sauer system) category.

Anybody remember the Beretta 90Two? One of the many Beretta 92 variants that wasn't well received. Guess the futuristic re-contour didn't really appeal to many people. The "90Two" name was also a dud.

Bren Ten

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:
Anybody remember the Beretta 90Two? One of the many Beretta 92 variants that wasn't well received. Guess the futuristic re-contour didn't really appeal to many people. The "90Two" name was also a dud.

I do! Terrible, confusing name.
https://youtu.be/1IKOx1deaeM?is=QxvXlIOzInNoGFk3

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Bren Ten

I'm not sure that the 1980s count as a "recent decade" anymore.

But to be fair, neither would the early 1990s Colt guns like the All American 2000 or Double Eagle that the OP included, so...

If the attorney's for Colt didn't get involved and require a stupid heavy trigger pull for "safety", the All American 2000 might have gotten more traction. While late the to party, the ergonomics are still one of the best double stack 9's today.

Let’s not forget the Glock “45GAP”

The Nano was Beretta's experimental phase they're probably happy to forget . Considering how many single-stacks there were at the time, 6+1 quickly dropped down on the tier list. I don't imagine it was fun to shoot either.

They actually still make the Nano, it’s just been rebranded and restyled (APX Carry).

Some not mentioned yet:

Watchtower Apache - this was supposed to be a high-end 'outdoes Staccato' 2011, but it's been plagued w/ problems.

CZ P-10M - "Everyone else is putting out 1.5 stack micro 9s, so let's put out a single-stack one w/ a lousy trigger."

Glock 49 - a hundred or so fans constantly lobbied for a long-slide G19. Glock finally appeased them. After those fans bought their G49s, no one else cared anymore. Don't hold your breath for a Gen6 G49.

Glock 25 & 28 - I can't remember ever seeing these in shops after their initial release. I don't know if there was ever demand for these .380s to begin with.

FN High Power - I can't believe how anyone at FN thought this Hi-Power reboot was a good idea.

Kimber Solo - an attempt to rebuild their reputation and failing.

Sig P290 - a model Sig would prefer people forget was ever made.

Sig P250, HK P2000, Mossberg MC series, Ruger American - examples of guns that were all intended to become flagship lines. None of them were bad, but they sold poorly and never developed much of a following.

The HK P2000 line had some moderate success. There were a few high profile LE agency adoptions, including the US DHS agencies like CBP, USBP, and ICE, as well as several large foreign agencies. And the P2000SK was somewhat popular for concealed carry during the 2000s to early/mid-2010s period when a thick, medium sized "subcompact" like the 2000SK or G26 was about as small as you could get in a double stack carry gun, before the proliferation of all the newer microcompacts.

So while it may have fallen short of HK's overly hopeful sales projections, calling it a "flop" is a stretch, especially compared to just about every other guns mentioned so far.

The Walther Creed (basically a recontoured PPX) if anything was even less successful then the PPX. That stupid name didn't help matters any.