Perhaps not a flop, but less than hoped for sales: SIG P290?

quote:

Originally posted by MacGyver:

quote:

Originally posted by Beanhead:
No one mentioned the Arsenal Strike one. This originally was the pistol that toted having one of 'lowest bore axis' of any pistol. Supposedly adopted by Russian Special Forces. They came out with a better version that Arsenal pro came out with.

I bought one. Shot it. Yes, it was a little flatter shooting than typical pistol but nothing really ground breaking. Sold it a few months later. Not sure if they are still making it.

They’re still making them. The story behind those is actually really interesting. The Arsenal Strike One is made in Italy while the Archon Type B (mechanically the exact same thing) is made in Germany by the other owner of the patent.

You are right. I had forgotten about that. Mine was one of the early German one. I did recall them moving the manufacturing to another country...Hungary or Czech? I am not certain.

Flops are pistols that couldn’t be sold or didn’t work. The HK P2000 sold and definitely works. The same applies to the Beretta APX A1 series.

I would put in the flop category the Colt All American 2000, Hudson H9 (distinct from the new Daniel Defense version) and the Remington R51.

I'd say that the Remington RP9/RP45 series were both sales and QC flops. Although, to be fair, there are some folks that swear by them.

I have virtually no experience with HK. At the shops I frequent, I simply pass by all the autos that are big as a G17 or steel framed. I never noticed an HK at all, never shot one, never touched one. My preference is for small, easily concealed handguns as I live in this hot, humid climate and wear shorts and T shirts pretty much year round.

But the HK CC9 looked good on the computer, and I set about trying to get one. For months, I never saw one (I never use Gunbroker after learning about the fake bids a friend and another guy, both dealers, used to bid on each others auctions to raise prices and claimed it was quite common on GB). But none appeared on Bud's, PSA or anywhere I had access. My local shops couldn't get one, either. Saw one for what I considered a bandit price on a Glock forum, so I just kept buying 365s and G43Xs.

When they finally became available, I was no longer interested. So it may have been a flop, but in my estimation, at least some of the problem was HK advertising the gun but not bringing it to market for months. In retrospect, I think I was fortunate not to find one after reading some negative reviews.

Bob

^^^^^^
Demand exceeded supply when it was released. Today, every LGS I go to has at least one in stock (my favorite LGS has both the iron sight model and the red dot sight model). Claims it is not reliable are simply false or extremely exaggerated at best.

As for size, the P2000, P2000sk, P30sk VP9sk, USP Compact, VP9A1 K, VP9 cc, CC9 and of course any P7 series are all smaller than a Glock 17. Handgun Hero is a great reference if you are not sure.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
The HK P2000 line had some moderate success. There were a few high profile LE agency adoptions, including the US DHS agencies like CBP, USBP, and ICE, as well as several large foreign agencies. And the P2000SK was somewhat popular for concealed carry during the 2000s to early/mid-2010s period when a thick, medium sized "subcompact" like the 2000SK or G26 was about as small as you could get in a double stack carry gun, before the proliferation of all the newer microcompacts.

So while it may have fallen short of HK's overly hopeful sales projections, calling it a "flop" is a stretch, especially compared to just about every other guns mentioned so far.

Gotta be fair...I really love my P2000's (full size and SK). It's one of the few HK's we get here in the Golden State.

Some of my favorite pistols have been flops

1. Heritage Stealth, later marketed as the Wilson Combat ADP
2. Vektor CP1...sold pretty well but were all recalled
3.Semmerling LM4. Great little pocket pistol chamber in .45ACP...last available from American Derringer Corp on special order

quote:

Originally posted by Beanhead:
You are right. I had forgotten about that. Mine was one of the early German one. I did recall them moving the manufacturing to another country...Hungary or Czech? I am not certain.

I think it’s still Germany.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
Flops are pistols that couldn’t be sold or didn’t work. The HK P2000 sold and definitely works. The same applies to the Beretta APX A1 series.

I would put in the flop category the Colt All American 2000, Hudson H9 (distinct from the new Daniel Defense version) and the Remington R51.

I agree. The P2000 and APX aren’t flops.

However, I think the Daniel Defense is still a flop just like the Hudson, even though they’re distinct.

quote:

Originally posted by bac1023:
Bren Ten

They were so cool. I handled one in the wild about 20 years back. It was a big gun. Alas too many of the guns in the original, and ONLY run shipped without magazines. A tragic swing and a miss.

Sig P250 (original frame style)

I won an Sig P250 in a drawing SigSauer had at the 2009 NRAAM in Phoenix. When Sig called me to let me know I had won, they offered me my choice of 9mm or .45ACP; I chose 9mm because the ammo was cheaper (20/20 hindsight, I wish I’d chosen .45ACP).

It shot pretty well, and the DAO trigger was pretty decent, but it only came with one magazine. Then by the time I was going to obtain more magazines they had changed the frame geometry (I’m guessing for the run-up to the P320?) and I missed out on the old-style mags. I think I could have obtained a new-style frame and mags, but I ended up gifting it to my daughter since she was living alone at the time. She ended up getting a Ruger LC9S Pro which she still carries now. So, the P250 sits in her safe unloved and lonely.

SCCY

I bought a SCCY CPX-2 several years ago because it was very compact and concealable, and because it was made in the town where I grew up (Daytona Beach, FL). I was very sad to see that SCCY went out of business. My CPX-2 shoots pretty well, and I still have it. I don’t carry it, but I intend to hang onto it just in case.

Walther made a 9mm semi-compact with delayed blowback operation. CCP, I think it was called. It did poorly in the marketplace.

Here's a very obscure one-The Ramline Exactor. It's a 22 LR that's nearly all plastic, save for the barrel and firing mechanism. Not revolutionary now, but very odd in the late '80's. Good shooting gun, it failed due to poor marketing and a mag that was prone to failure. It sits in my safe, LNIB, next to my Bond Arms Bullpup. I like the Bullpup, because it's so damned odd. It's the only 9mm I've ever had that functions best and is most accurate with Winchester White Box.

FNS-9 FNS-40

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
I am very fond of my P250.

To those of us that appreciated a good DA revolver action, the P250 provided a good option. I picked one up just before retiring from LE in 2008 in .40 S&W. Later, I got .357 Sig and 9mm barrels in the Compact size, and ultimately converted it to a .40 S&W Subcompact as an alternative to a 5 shot J-frame S&W.

I also like the P250 and had to have one when they first came out.

Not sure that I'd call the CZ 97 a total flop, but I think it was a sales disappointment for CZ.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawes:
Not sure that I'd call the CZ 97 a total flop, but I think it was a sales disappointment for CZ.

It was too little too much, too late.

Some of y'all like your P250; I couldn't sell mine fast enough.



Selling it actually started my Glock obsession, which still lives on today.