quote:

Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
I use that much trigger finger for three reasons:
1) I started with DA/SA and found that was the best way to get through the initial DA.
2) It works for me
3) This is what distal pad looks like for me, it's uncomfortable, not natural, and causes a cramp pretty quick:


If distal pad gets you your best results, great! Do it! I've just found that for me, it is not optimal.

That gun is nowhere near in line with your forearm. It should be pointing to the left about 30deg, that would increase the trigger reach and decrease the outward angle of your trigger finger quite a bit (not to mention make it easier to hit things).

Cuz I'm trying to take a pic against a background that doesn't have barbies strewn about. Jeez guys.

The amount of trigger finger required isn't set in stone, and quite to the contrary of what many of us have always been taught.

The amount of finger necessary is dictated by hand size and hand strength as a general rule. As long as the trigger is pulled straight to the rear with no interruptions, it is optimal for that person.

The closer you can get the slide to be parallel to the long bone of the arm, the more optimal it is. But, again, it is a matter of position to optimize leverage. That also isn't set in stone. The potential drawback is the farther you get out toward the thumb, the less control you actually have. Getting the gun as high into the hand as one can is of greater importance.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The amount of trigger finger required isn't set in stone, and quite to the contrary of what many of us have always been taught.

Perfect response...thanks for that. Now that's out of the way, how and when is Sig going to fix this?

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The amount of trigger finger required isn't set in stone, and quite to the contrary of what many of us have always been taught.

The amount of finger necessary is dictated by hand size and hand strength as a general rule. As long as the trigger is pulled straight to the rear with no interruptions, it is optimal for that person.

The closer you can get the slide to be parallel to the long bone of the arm, the more optimal it is. But, again, it is a matter of position to optimize leverage. That also isn't set in stone. The potential drawback is the farther you get out toward the thumb, the less control you actually have. Getting the gun as high into the hand as one can is of greater importance.

That seems right on to me. Most instructors realize there really is no such thing as "one size fits all". Small hands or short fingers just means some modification of the technique. Most any fairly competent shooter can shoot well enough to make hits with a gun that is way too big for their hands.

Obviously, many can do much better with a gun that really fits and some familiarization. I first noticed differences in the performance of the small handed folks when the department I work for switched from double stack Smith 5900/6900 for all to a few 3900 series single stack guns for primarily female shooters and "admin" types. A switch to the thick gripped Glocks did result in a larger percentage shooting higher scores for quals but I attribute that to the easier Glock trigger compared to the TDA Smith. I realize many were trained to "dump the first round into the dirt" and concentrate on the single action shot. Still haven't found any instructor nearby that will confirm that edict. It certainly isn't a modern tactic and maybe before my time!


I would be a bit uncomfortable with a gun that won't fire with certain trigger manipulation though. I have a low round count 320 in 9mm that has given me no trouble. The thought that the trigger would go dead on a gun designed for SHTF scenarios or self defense is unsettling. I'm sure I missed something heer though. I haven't read the original thread in a few days.

quote:

Originally posted by jackimoe:
A switch to the thick gripped Glocks did result in a larger percentage shooting higher scores for quals but I attribute that to the easier Glock trigger compared to the TDA Smith. I realize many were trained to "dump the first round into the dirt" and concentrate on the single action shot. Still haven't found any instructor nearby that will confirm that edict. It certainly isn't a modern tactic and maybe before my time!

This is what I was taught in the Marines around 1988 when the Beretta was adopted.

A bit of an overdue update: I got the P320 back from SIG, no work done. It shipped out from them late last week (Friday?) and I got it Monday. In between then, the drop thing came to a head. Funny, now it's probably going to go back for a third time for the upgrade; wish I would've delayed been able to say "keep it and update it!" Because of the anticipated upgrade, I don't see a reason to send it to Roy, as I'd hate for his work to be undone by the upgrade. And the upgrade supposedly addresses double click issues too. Everyone seems to infer novels from simple statements of late, so let me clearly state that I truly appreciate Roy's offer and communicated with him via email prior to all the drop stuff. I have perfect confidence that he and GG would have figured out how to fix the problem. The only reason I'm going to decline the offer now is because of the expected upgrades. I can guarantee the GG will be the first people I'd contact to have any future work done on any of my SIGs (or HKs for that matter).

For anyone interested, I took some pics of where my finger ends up on the P320 and its not as far back as the classics. The P320 trigger stops way before the frame, much like the PPQ/VP9.




So I don't think it's my finger that's directly stalling the trigger. However, having the pistol back in my hands I was able to examine what could be stalling it and I found there's an amount of side to side play in the trigger and it seems that the slop combined with the amount of my trigger finger use may create some interaction with the shoe/trigger bar/frame/grip module that causes the stall.

Ultimately, I'm still not sure how to feel about this issue, even though it may become moot. On one hand, I don't consider how I manipulate the trigger to be severe. It works on every other firearm I've ever shot without inducing failures. At the same time, I think it is also end-user error to an extent. By this I mean the pistol is apparently designed to require the user pull the trigger all the way back to reset it. Would we blame the design of any other pistol I can think of if someone was short stroking and not letting the trigger out far enough to reset? Which is interesting, because there is a still a reset point on the let-out of the trigger. I am of two minds on this. Part of me says the design is different from what is commonly used and as such needs to be manipulated differently. Another part of me says it's a bad design idea, especially if you don't put the word out.

Oh well, like I said, it's probably going to be a moot point with the expected upgrades. And please don't take the fact that I mentioned the upgrade to bring that other discussion here. Let's leave all that in the other thread.

One last "thank you" to Roy!

The initial release of the P290 had a dead trigger issue if you short stroked the trigger reset, which I found particularly discomforting given the long trigger reset. This was resolved with the P290RS and Sig offered upgrades as well for the originals.

I hope your problem is solved.