quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
Not sure my hard dick would fit in a trigger guard. . Maybe one of those winter war fold away guards would work for me.

Sorry I honestly couldn't resist. I do agree that this seems like a potential problem for more then just a single user.

Lol...

You are right.... I don't think annopened winter trigger would fit either. I have a similiar issue with an FNP45 Tactical, the trigger wouldn't break sometimes. FN call tag it, looked at it, then sent me a brand new retail packaging of the same gun, with all accessories and mags... I didn't even have to ask.

I think this is an issue of tolerance stacking. I had a Gray Guns trigger that would work in one P320, but not another. If I swapped trigger bars between the pistols, the problem followed the trigger bar.

I think you could probably get a gunsmith to take a little bit off of the trigger bar at a specific point to shorten the distance between the striker release and the sear reset.

You could also probably order several trigger bars and/or sears and play parts roulette until you found a combination that worked.

Fear of this exact issue is the main reason I switched to the Apex Advanced Trigger instead of the Gray Guns trigger. I could induce this failure consistently in dry-fire with the Gray Guns trigger.

quote:

Originally posted by Rln_21:
Now, this was a theoretically potential issue I identified within moments of handling the first P320 I ever saw/bought. It is why within two hours of having the P320 into the shop I had already converted it into a traditional slide disconnect sear/trigger bar action, and I still run that particular gun in that configuration today.

Is that a parts kit that is available for purchase or a service that can be performed if we send in the gun?

I haven't gotten my hands on a 320 yet, could someone explain what the "two clicks" are?

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
I haven't gotten my hands on a 320 yet, could someone explain what the "two clicks" are?

If you work the trigger with the FCU removed from the grip module, you can see how as the trigger bar moves forward it first pulls on the sear lever, pulling the sear down and then as it travels further it starts to move downward until it drops low enough to allow the sear lever to slip off of the top, resetting the sear. You won't get the first click when doing this without the slide on the weapon since the striker is not present for the sear to engage.

All P320s have two clicks, the first when the sear releases the striker and the second when the trigger bar releases the sear. The amount of double click perceived by the shooter has to do with how much trigger travel occurs between those two events, or more accurately, how quickly that travel happens.

When shooting, if the sear has not reset by the time the slide returns forward, then the striker will not be cocked and the gun will not fire the next time you pull the trigger.

Theoretically, if you shaved some height off of the part of the trigger bar that engages the sear, it should disconnect earlier, thereby reducing the perception of double click. However, if you were to reduce it too much, then I think it might be possible that the sear lever would release from the trigger bar before the sear had released the striker, causing an even bigger problem.

So sear resetting partially depends on follow through, not just spring power and slide travel?

SIG called me back this afternoon and said they were not willing to replace the FCU, as they expect the same results. I said I'll take the pistol back and thanked the rep for his assistance. I know he's just the go-between and he seemed to do what he could for me. I'll take Roy up on his awesome offer.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
So sear resetting partially depends on follow through, not just spring power and slide travel?

I would say it doesn't depend on slide movement at all.

My Glock doesn't have that option of the "dead trigger"

Just another reason why I didn't go with the P320.

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
I'll take Roy up on his awesome offer.

It would be great to hear what he tells you after having had a look at the gun.

You're a braver man than I. If a company could replicate a serious issue but refused to fix it I would take a refund real quick. Looks like they are leaving off the "and back" part of their slogan these days.

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
SIG called me back this afternoon and said they were not willing to replace the FCU, as they expect the same results. I said I'll take the pistol back and thanked the rep for his assistance. I know he's just the go-between and he seemed to do what he could for me. I'll take Roy up on his awesome offer.

That's what I would do too. I bought the grayguns pelt straight trigger to install in my Sig 320C and had some issues with it. Didn't know if it was because of my own ineptitude installing it or the new trigger was at fault. I called grayguns and spoke to them about it. They ended up offering to bring the whole gun into the shop and giving it a full once-over. They put me at the top of the waiting list and not only fixed the issue I was having but did a full Competition Action Package on it. I got it back very quickly and absolutely love it. I was really happy with it before the work but now it's significantly better.

And that's how a good company is supposed to treat their customers and stand behind their products, as a previous poster mentioned that FN did. It's a shame that Sig won't do that but you can rest assured that Grayguns will. And I don't mean to bash Sig. I'm very happy with my Sigs and have yet to have any issues. Just hate to hear when someone does have a problem and the company doesn't step up and do the right thing.

Good luck!!

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
If I had the pistol in hand, I'd see if you're right about my trigger finger hitting the frame, but you may be on to something. It doesn't with the VP9 or PPQ, but those triggers stop before reaching the frame. When I tried my classic SIGs, I am touching the mag release with the tip of my finger after the trigger breaks:

I'm curious: Is there a reason you're wrapping your trigger finger around the trigger like that? I was always taught/told use the pad of your index finger on the trigger, and that's what I've always done. Even with my tiny little Ruger LCP.

I wear XL gloves.

A couple of times I tried what you're doing, just for curiosity's sake. It did not work well for me.

Can you imagine if Sig amended the P320 user manual to inform users that the gun cannot be counted on to fire reliably unless they use a certain trigger technique? In addition to the disclaimer that the pistol could fire if you drop it, that could get fairly verbose in a hurry. Or, they could just say, "It might not fire when you want it to, but it could fire when you don't."

quote:

Originally posted by ether:
Can you imagine if Sig amended the P320 user manual to inform users that the gun cannot be counted on to fire reliably unless they use a certain trigger technique?

In case this was addressed to my comments: I'm not suggesting his trigger technique should be blamed for the problem he's experiencing. I'm just wondering why he's doing it that way, when everything I've learned says that's sub-optimal.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by ether:
Can you imagine if Sig amended the P320 user manual to inform users that the gun cannot be counted on to fire reliably unless they use a certain trigger technique?

In case this was addressed to my comments: I'm not suggesting his trigger technique should be blamed for the problem he's experiencing. I'm just wondering why he's doing it that way, when everything I've learned says that's sub-optimal.

I was addressing your post, but I didn't intend to attack or offend you. I agree that the technique pictured isn't considered optimal...I was just suggesting that a shooter's trigger technique shouldn't be dictated by the shooting platform. If it works for him, it should work for the pistol. The technique might not be optimal, but it's certainly not revolutionary or "extreme" in any way. And I guarantee his technique works just fine on that P229...

some revolver shooters and some with long fingers (like me) have shot that way...I have gone to the finger pad of the trigger finger but have also read where some just prefer to do it the way I see in that photograph...

Bill

I use that much trigger finger for three reasons:
1) I started with DA/SA and found that was the best way to get through the initial DA.
2) It works for me
3) This is what distal pad looks like for me, it's uncomfortable, not natural, and causes a cramp pretty quick:


If distal pad gets you your best results, great! Do it! I've just found that for me, it is not optimal.

I have been interested in the P320 since its introduction and researched it on the internet pretty thoroughly before I bought one. I now have two.

I have known about the P320 "double click" phenomenon for a long time, and understand the design features of the FCU that result in the double click.

On both of my P320s, if I am very careful, I can arrest the trigger pull after the first click (striker release) and before the second click (sear reset). Since I had concerns about the possibility of this phenomenon resulting in a FTF in live fire, I have repeatedly deliberately tried to manipulate the trigger in live fire so as to induce a FTF due to failure of sear reset.

I have never been able to do so, but I don't use nearly so much of my finger on the trigger as what is shown above. But I have heard of about a half-dozen or so P320 failures to fires due to this issue prior to this thread. Most of the owners returned their pistols to SIG and had the trigger bars modified or replaced. I am rather surprised that SIG did not do so in this case.

quote:

Originally posted by ether:
I was addressing your post, but I didn't intend to attack or offend you.

I didn't feel under attack and I wasn't offended. I was simply clarifying.

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
I use that much trigger finger for three reasons:

Fair enough. Was just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by BuddyChryst:
3) This is what distal pad looks like for me, it's uncomfortable, not natural, and causes a cramp pretty quick:

Fair enough.

That's what it looks like for me, too. To me the advantage is minimum interaction between trigger finger and the rest of my hand. But to each their own. Like I said: Was just curious.