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Mainly a Mainer
Picture of clayshooter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:
Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides


the glock's frames flex Confused


Could be. I'm not sure. Honestly, that's why I was asking, just out of curiosity.
 
Posts: 6018 | Location: NH | Registered: May 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Banned. This ex-member has a history of failing to deliver on goods and promises
posted Hide Post
I'm also curious, if the slide of the P220 Elite Carry is too short to handle the recoil/ pressures/ energy of the 10mm, perhaps I need to retire my S&W 1076s and My Bren Ten Special Forces?

Seriously, with the advanced metallurgy and technology that has gone into the P220 series, why not an Elite Carry? Is the simple answer that BarSto wants to keep the initial run simple?
 
Posts: 647 | Location: Gator Country! | Registered: May 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Banned
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:
quote:
for $510 I could get a Glock 10mm.


...and that would do what toward obtaining a 10mm sig?


quote:
Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides


the glock's frames flex Confused


I can't see spend all that money for a Sig 10mm, when a $500 Glock 10mm will do about the same thing.

I'm not a 10mm nut. I like 45 ACP and 357 Mag.
 
Posts: 2028 | Location: St.Louis County, Mo | Registered: December 12, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Casuistic Thinker and Daoist
Picture of 9mmepiphany
posted Hide Post
quote:
can't see spend all that money for a Sig 10mm,


unless i'm mistaken, i think the point of the thread wasn't about the value of a 10mm conversion of a sig 220, but to determine how much demand, with an accurate price point, there was for a custom conversion of a sig 220 to 10mm.




No, Daoism isn't a religion



 
Posts: 14261 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Flork
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 45R:
Hey for those of us who already have a ST and want to be able to shoot both the 45ACP and 10mm does the conversion change the frame to shoot 10mm only or can we still shoot 45ACP if we have another slide/barrel combo.


You would need to know a bit about the internals and how to swap out certain parts, and you would need a second slide, but yeah it can be done.


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Scott @ Apex
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"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."
Leonard Novak - "Thee Gambler" (SASS)
------------------------------------------------

My guides to Sig Lubrication: http://www.apextactical.com/bl...-sauer-pistol-rails/

http://www.apextactical.com/bl...nternal-lubrication/
 
Posts: 3489 | Location: Apex Tactical Specialties - Peoria, AZ | Registered: June 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Flork
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by clayshooter:
Serious question: How does Glock make their short slide G-29 able to handle the 10mm without any problems? Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides versus the Sig frame and slides such that the alloy frames of the full size 220 and the short slides of the 220 Carry are not up to par enough to handle the 10mm? Are the aluminum rails of the Sigs versus the steel rail tabs of the Glock the critical difference there? Just curious. Thanks!


The big difference is the material which the frame is made from. Plastic being more flexible than Aluminum will flex and rebound when the slide smacks into the frame with enough force to rip the Mount Everest from the face of the earth.

I haven't personally seen the footage of a GLOCK 10mm under recoil, but I would be willing to guess that the slide twists and flexes like a wind sock. I've seen high speed footage of the P220 in 45 and it flexes pretty good.

The big thing is that the take down lever and locking block insert take up all the recoil and wee need to make sure those parts will hold up to GGI standards.


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-------------------------------------------
Scott @ Apex
-------------------------------------------
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."
Leonard Novak - "Thee Gambler" (SASS)
------------------------------------------------

My guides to Sig Lubrication: http://www.apextactical.com/bl...-sauer-pistol-rails/

http://www.apextactical.com/bl...nternal-lubrication/
 
Posts: 3489 | Location: Apex Tactical Specialties - Peoria, AZ | Registered: June 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Flork
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SIGnified:
Anyone have a suggestion on where to find a P220 Elite Stainless? (for this project)

The Supermatch looks great too, but has the AL frame - does the longer slide help in that regard?

I've been looking with no luck; idears welcome.


Yes the long slide does help, it'll be heavier and give us better ability to manage the recoil.


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Scott @ Apex
-------------------------------------------
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."
Leonard Novak - "Thee Gambler" (SASS)
------------------------------------------------

My guides to Sig Lubrication: http://www.apextactical.com/bl...-sauer-pistol-rails/

http://www.apextactical.com/bl...nternal-lubrication/
 
Posts: 3489 | Location: Apex Tactical Specialties - Peoria, AZ | Registered: June 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Flork
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by StVitus:
I'm also curious, if the slide of the P220 Elite Carry is too short to handle the recoil/ pressures/ energy of the 10mm, perhaps I need to retire my S&W 1076s and My Bren Ten Special Forces?

Seriously, with the advanced metallurgy and technology that has gone into the P220 series, why not an Elite Carry? Is the simple answer that BarSto wants to keep the initial run simple?


Momentarily, it's an issue with slide mass and recoil springs. As stated in another post I just made, the locking block insert and take down lever take all the impact from the recoil of the 10mm cartridge. The problem is making the gun so that it will last.


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-------------------------------------------
Scott @ Apex
-------------------------------------------
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."
Leonard Novak - "Thee Gambler" (SASS)
------------------------------------------------

My guides to Sig Lubrication: http://www.apextactical.com/bl...-sauer-pistol-rails/

http://www.apextactical.com/bl...nternal-lubrication/
 
Posts: 3489 | Location: Apex Tactical Specialties - Peoria, AZ | Registered: June 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mainly a Mainer
Picture of clayshooter
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
quote:
Originally posted by clayshooter:
Serious question: How does Glock make their short slide G-29 able to handle the 10mm without any problems? Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides versus the Sig frame and slides such that the alloy frames of the full size 220 and the short slides of the 220 Carry are not up to par enough to handle the 10mm? Are the aluminum rails of the Sigs versus the steel rail tabs of the Glock the critical difference there? Just curious. Thanks!


The big difference is the material which the frame is made from. Plastic being more flexible than Aluminum will flex and rebound when the slide smacks into the frame with enough force to rip the Mount Everest from the face of the earth.

I haven't personally seen the footage of a GLOCK 10mm under recoil, but I would be willing to guess that the slide twists and flexes like a wind sock. I've seen high speed footage of the P220 in 45 and it flexes pretty good.

The big thing is that the take down lever and locking block insert take up all the recoil and wee need to make sure those parts will hold up to GGI standards.



Ahh, gotcha'. Makes sense. Thanks for that reply, Flork,
 
Posts: 6018 | Location: NH | Registered: May 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of signoir
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
Momentarily, it's an issue with slide mass and recoil springs...

IIRC, the stock P220 recoil spring is 20lbs. That would give the 24lb spring a 20% increase in resistance to the 28% increase in PF (using Sigfreund's numbers of 182 and 234 for .45 and Doubletap 10mm respectively). Shooting DTs out of my 5" Kimber, I run a Wolff 22lb spring - an increase of 38% over the 16lb spring that Kimber uses for their .45. I notice that Wolff doesn't offer a higher spring rating than 24lb for the 220 on their website. Even if you could install a heavier spring, I'm not sure how easy it would be to rack the slide.


"When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power...like God must feel... when he's holding a gun!" H. Simpson.
 
Posts: 1044 | Registered: July 04, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Resident BoneCrusher
Picture of 45R
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by tetchaje:
Foshizle. Time to start hunting for a 220ST...


I have a GGI 220ST....but it'll cost you an arm and a leg Smile


---------------------------
My Gallery
 
Posts: 9656 | Registered: November 26, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of SIG_NZ
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
Glad to see this come to fruition.

Now it's time to see how many of those "Damn it, SIG, make a 10mm" people put their money where their mouths are. Wink

Oat


Start exporting them to New Zealand, and I'll personally shove the money in your pocket!


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
P226R - 9mm
Glock 20 - 10mm Auto
Desert Eagle - 44 Magnum
If you haven't solved your problem with fifteen rounds, a pistol was an inappropriate choice for the scenario!
 
Posts: 197 | Registered: March 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of SIG_NZ
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
quote:
Originally posted by clayshooter:
Serious question: How does Glock make their short slide G-29 able to handle the 10mm without any problems? Where are the critical differences between the way the Glock makes their frames and slides versus the Sig frame and slides such that the alloy frames of the full size 220 and the short slides of the 220 Carry are not up to par enough to handle the 10mm? Are the aluminum rails of the Sigs versus the steel rail tabs of the Glock the critical difference there? Just curious. Thanks!


The big difference is the material which the frame is made from. Plastic being more flexible than Aluminum will flex and rebound when the slide smacks into the frame with enough force to rip the Mount Everest from the face of the earth.

I haven't personally seen the footage of a GLOCK 10mm under recoil, but I would be willing to guess that the slide twists and flexes like a wind sock. I've seen high speed footage of the P220 in 45 and it flexes pretty good.

The big thing is that the take down lever and locking block insert take up all the recoil and wee need to make sure those parts will hold up to GGI standards.


With the glock it would have to be a combination of increased slide weight, recoil spring tension, slide flex and frame flex. I have a G20 already on order....gotta go with what is proven....but export some here and I'll buy it for sure!


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
P226R - 9mm
Glock 20 - 10mm Auto
Desert Eagle - 44 Magnum
If you haven't solved your problem with fifteen rounds, a pistol was an inappropriate choice for the scenario!
 
Posts: 197 | Registered: March 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of NorfolkP229
posted Hide Post
Damn. I swear this forum is gonna get me divorced!! VERY interested in a P220 Elite Stainless in 10mm!!!

I guess its time to start tracking down an Elite.

Big Grin


---------------
Jeffrey

P365 - GGI P220ST 10mm - Sig Mosquito - Various Others


"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. " - Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 7903 | Location: WNC Native, now in Virginia Beach, VA | Registered: August 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Flork
posted Hide Post
Don't allow it to come to divorce.

Tell her the 10mm Elite is a gift for her and just play it that way. That's what I would do if I were married.

My Late Uncle Leonard(the guy who got me into shooting) gave me the following advise for my choice of hobbies and my future with a woman.

"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."

Man, that's good advise.

I miss my Uncle.


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-------------------------------------------
Scott @ Apex
-------------------------------------------
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."
Leonard Novak - "Thee Gambler" (SASS)
------------------------------------------------

My guides to Sig Lubrication: http://www.apextactical.com/bl...-sauer-pistol-rails/

http://www.apextactical.com/bl...nternal-lubrication/
 
Posts: 3489 | Location: Apex Tactical Specialties - Peoria, AZ | Registered: June 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of seabass
posted Hide Post
Scott,

That should be your new signature line.



 
Posts: 1139 | Location: CA | Registered: July 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Anarion
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
Momentarily, it's an issue with slide mass and recoil springs. As stated in another post I just made, the locking block insert and take down lever take all the impact from the recoil of the 10mm cartridge. The problem is making the gun so that it will last.


Just out of curiosity, then what is the likelihood down the road of possibly trying the SigPro? No takedown lever to be concerned about...


==============================
On the fields of friendly strife are sown the seeds that on other days and other fields will bear the fruits of victory.
Gen. Douglas MacArthur
 
Posts: 3106 | Location: Houston | Registered: December 09, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Runnin' home to some small Ohio town
Picture of STUGOTSIG
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Flork:
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."

That's been my plan for a while now. Although when I first started dating my wife, I had sold off my collection (due to my first wife Mad). All I had was my MKII and a shottie.
For my birthday one year (still dating), she hands me a Series 70 Colt...She has no idea how many I have now Wink
Man I love my wife Cool


__________________________Law Enforcement can visit our website at www.stdlaw.net __________________________
 
Posts: 5777 | Location: Too close to Top Gun Supply | Registered: April 27, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Flork
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Anarion:
Just out of curiosity, then what is the likelihood down the road of possibly trying the SigPro? No takedown lever to be concerned about...


I don't believe the magazine well in the SP series pistols is long enough to handle the 10mm, but I can take a look at one.

If there were a SP in 44, I'd totally carry one...............Oh there's an idea, I'll have to look into that one.


------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Scott @ Apex
-------------------------------------------
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."
Leonard Novak - "Thee Gambler" (SASS)
------------------------------------------------

My guides to Sig Lubrication: http://www.apextactical.com/bl...-sauer-pistol-rails/

http://www.apextactical.com/bl...nternal-lubrication/
 
Posts: 3489 | Location: Apex Tactical Specialties - Peoria, AZ | Registered: June 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Flork
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by STUGOTSIG:
Man I love my wife Cool


Stu,

I love your wife too.............I don't personally know her, but she must be a heck of a sweetie to put up with you.


------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Scott @ Apex
-------------------------------------------
"Own enough guns that your wife will never notice a gun or 2 being added or taken away from the collection."
Leonard Novak - "Thee Gambler" (SASS)
------------------------------------------------

My guides to Sig Lubrication: http://www.apextactical.com/bl...-sauer-pistol-rails/

http://www.apextactical.com/bl...nternal-lubrication/
 
Posts: 3489 | Location: Apex Tactical Specialties - Peoria, AZ | Registered: June 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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