quote:

Originally posted by StVitus:
Bruce,

I understand the older folded slide not being able to withstand the torque of the 10mm, but what do you really think of the suitability of an aluminum frame given adequate recoil spring weight and perhaps a tungsten guide rod?

BTW, put me on the list for one in whatever configuration you decide on!

quote:

Originally posted by StVitus:
.......Or, would it be considered sacrilege to modify a P220 Langdon?

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Originally posted by trover:
Am I appropriate to wonder what happens if SigArms decides a 10mm pistol is a good thing and comes out with its own model?

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Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by trover:
Am I appropriate to wonder what happens if SigArms decides a 10mm pistol is a good thing and comes out with its own model?

You're not the only one who has thought that thought. It wouldn't cost over $1800, but it wouldn't be a Grayguns creation, either. And at this moment a factory 10mm is of course mere speculation.
If it did materialize, there's still a very good chance the GGI conversion would remain the superior product and perhaps become even more sought after.

Bruce's short reset trigger was, IIRC, available for several years before SIG's, but was hardly known or appreciated. With the advent of the factory version, the value of a shorter trigger reset suddenly became much more widely known and Bruce's offering has generally been recognized as the superior one. Both of those factors have, I strongly suspect, resulted in a major upsurge in interest in GGI's modification.

quote:

Originally posted by trover:
I'm curious about a few things:

1) I don't have a P220 ST or an Elite. I understand I can either find an ST or buy an Elite, and that you may be selling complete guns, which to me seems perhaps the right way to go.
(We're working on the details of offering complete pistols. Without getting too far into this, such transactions will likely require us to re-licence as manufacturers and collect the 11% Federal tax for firearms. It thus might be more cost effective for us to only work on customer-supplied pistols, at least until we reach a point at which higher volume lets us build them more efficiently.)

But this assumes you have some sort of distribution relationship with SigArms, which assumes some sort of level of approval of what you're doing (modification wise), and I'm wondering if these assumptions are correct and if so what you think pricing might be for the complete gun? Whew! Lotta stuff there....
(Incorrect. We can purchase SIGARMS products as can any reputable dealer in good standing. This project is not sanctioned by SIGARMS. I suspect they are right pleased to sell us some parts
and might be flat delighted to sell us 100 P220 Elites at a whack if it gets to that point, but this particular project isn't otherwise a mutual venture.)

2) Somewhat related. It seems there's a trademark issue if the gun you're producing is going to be named "Sig (include variation here)" or "P" or "220," which again assumes some level of SigArms approval.
(Non-issue. We're careful NOT to imply such approval or cloak our work in their imprimatur where it doesn't exist! Of course we must use commonly accepted terms to identify the products we work on, but beyond that we won't knowingly infringe on their trademarks in any way. We've never had any issue with SIGARMS over such things, and I run stuff like this past certain individuals to ensure we're doing things properly and for mutual benefit where possible. We do enjoy a great relationship with SIGARMS that trumps any other agenda.)

3) What happens to Sig warranties? I suspect liability issues follow suit, but I'm not really concerned about that now because I know from being a member here that whatever Bruce designs and builds will be of the highest quality.
(Thank you! I hope so, because it could be hard on us if it isn't! See, we warrant everything we do for as long as you own it (exception: if you kill it yourself through mishandling, we'll still be very nice to you, but you might be asked to buy some parts), just as I always have for over 30 years before Grayguns Inc. was formed three years ago. We might limit our warranty to a set period, say 5 years for this pistol only due to the gun-eating nature of the 10mm caliber, but I am leaning towards not changing a thing. Though theirs is quite good, I think our warranty stands well in comparison to SIGARMS', and I've never regretted offering it. We do make mistakes now and then, as the Lord made only one perfect man, but we're there for you. So is SIGARMS, but I can't expect they will warrant this conversion. What counts is WE WILL.)

4) Am I appropriate to wonder what happens if SigArms decides a 10mm pistol is a good thing and comes out with its own model? I suppose this is a double-edged sword, and maybe I'm thinking out loud, but it seems it could either be a disaster for this conversion or make it a very valuable collector's item and who's to say which is the case.
(Flork sez, "Grow a pair and bring it on!" I'm a bit more reserved, but I will say we're highly confident in this project's technical success, market appeal and percieved value. I think I answered that question, as did Sigfreund. I'll add only that I've built many, many serviceable Colt Delta Elites into high grade custom pistols. It's all good!)

Sorry, Para, if I'm wrong to raise these questions or issues, but I'm interested in this gun, and these are issues that jumped into my head.

quote:

Originally posted by nojoy:
Grayguns I am very interested in this project and now have an excuse to buy a used or LNIB P220ST. I believe Sig stopped making those last year. Anyway you may have already mentioned this but what type of ammo are you going to use to to get this gun up and running? For me the most powerful 10mm ammo around that I can buy (50 or 500 at a time) is Doubletap. If this ST can withstand thousands of rounds of Doubletap or any other high end 10mm I am definately in. The only reason for me to get a 10mm is to shoot ammo from Doubletap. Maybe Mike at Doubletap will donate some of his 10mm ammo for this project. The more interest in the 10mm cartridge the better for business.

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Originally posted by Grayguns:
Trover brought up an interesting, if somewhat provocative set of concerns. OK, I'll respond in detail:

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Originally posted by Belgian Blue:
Do you have any plans to modify, upgrade or strengthen the locking block of the pistols you convert to 10mm?

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Originally posted by Belgian Blue:
I've got a technical question of sorts...

When it was originally introduced, the P220 Combat was said to have an improved, more durable locking block.

I'm guessing most P220STs have the standard P220 locking block.

Do you have any plans to modify, upgrade or strengthen the locking block of the pistols you convert to 10mm?