Furthering my earlier post and I realize I’m late to the party.

The red dot didn’t make me a better shot, no better shot placement. I still scored the same initially with it. Where it does make up is not having a patrol rifle in all circumstances it is a great evener, if that’s a word and properly used extended my range out to 75 yards with solid hits. I always have a light on my belt, but a lot of our clearing after shootings occur in our bar area outside you have to go hands on, hold objects or potential evidence and accurately move through dimly to down right dark areas in alleys. Being able to move and speak into the radio with the other hand isn’t just a good idea it’s essential for survival. Again in my humble opinion it works for me some may hve a different attitude about it.

LVMPD officer uses one here with desired effect:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yollZf8NlbM

one officer had irons / one (driver) had RDS

that's effective policing IMO

-------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
LVMPD officer uses one here with desired effect:

Actually, the one with the irons was who engaged the BG first and put him down.

Interesting video that made me cringe a little as it almost turned into a circular firing squad. Sometimes that’s unavoidable, but fortunately the officers from the two vehicles didn’t get any farther into each other’s lines of fire than they did.

loved that decisive action vs here with the LAPD who basically allowed a machete wielding attacker carjack a citizen in front of them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aHD-OEBWVg

-----------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
loved that decisive action vs here with the LAPD who basically allowed a machete wielding attacker carjack a citizen in front of them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aHD-OEBWVg

-----------------------------------

Any particular reason why they LAPD is going out of their way to NOT shoot people?

My son is a LVMPD firearms instructor and is lead instructor in RDS. He told me he has taught several agencies that were interested in adding RDS sights to their duty weapons.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeGLI:

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
loved that decisive action vs here with the LAPD who basically allowed a machete wielding attacker carjack a citizen in front of them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aHD-OEBWVg

-----------------------------------

Any particular reason why they LAPD is going out of their way to NOT shoot people?

Yes, the climate has changed drastically, even if they are justified, public opinion will rule regardless of the facts. The majority of people don't believe that criminals are criminals in Los Angeles. They think they are just having an outburst and asking for help violently and don't deserve any violence to stop them. Didn't you guys watch the video? The car jacking victim wouldn't want charges pressed and he was sorry the man was shot...... Policing isn't the same across the country.

quote:

Originally posted by piedrarc:
Yes, the climate has changed drastically, even if they are justified, public opinion will rule regardless of the facts.

Much discussion of this in recent times. It’s not just the “Ferguson effect”; in some places attempts have even been made to change the legal statutes that govern what the police are justified doing. I have lost track of the effort to radically change the law pertaining to the use of deadly force by police in California, but whether it was changed or just attempted, it was a demonstration of what the police are faced with.

And let us not forget who the police work for. They are hired by the rest of us to enforce the laws the rest of us have enacted through our elected representatives. Coupled tightly with that is how the laws are enforced. There are constitutional limits on the upper levels of what the police can do, but seldom, if ever, any lower levels. If the people who hire the police don’t want them to actually enforce a law, or don’t want it enforced in certain ways, it’s ultimately the people’s decision, or at least the decisions of the people like police chiefs whom the rest of us hire to implement our desires.

There was once a daily newspaper feature “Pot-Shots” by Ashleigh Brilliant. His number 9512 states, “Those who believe in majority rule want a world governed by the young, poor, and ignorant.” That dates back many years, and there are other categories of people I would add to the list, but it is succinct description of reality, and especially the ignorant part.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:



Actually, the one with the irons was who engaged the BG first and put him down.

How do you know this? I am not arguing the subject of this thread, just curious about that OIS. I thought it usually took a bit of a time for the definitive AAR, pathology report etc to come out.

quote:

Originally posted by YVK:

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Actually, the one with the irons was who engaged the BG first and put him down.

How do you know this? I am not arguing the subject of this thread, just curious about that OIS. I thought it usually took a bit of a time for the definitive AAR, pathology report etc to come out.

Watching the video I saw the same, guy with irons engaged first.

quote:

Originally posted by YVK:
How do you know this?

Because I watched the video.

In looking at it, including a frame at a time, it’s obvious that the passenger officer (the one with the iron sights) started firing before the driver officer with the optic. It is also reasonable to believe that his first shot hit the BG based on his reaction to the shot. It’s possible that the first shots (of about seven or more) that the irons guy fired missed the BG entirely, but it’s very unlikely considering how the BG reacted, including immediately turning away and dropping his gun.

Less certain is what the BG was intending when he bailed out of the white car. But the way he approached the red car and appeared to be pointing his long gun at the driver (hard to be positive with only a two-dimensional image), I suspect he intended to carjack the vehicle. I believe he probably was not aware of the police presence until the first officer out of his car (iron sights handgun) challenged him from the side because he didn’t seem to even look toward the officer at first.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by YVK:
How do you know this?

Because I watched the video.

So, you don't know

- if the stop was psychologic or physiologic
- hits to misses ratio for each officer involved
- hit placement for each officer involved
- who placed the first COM or CNS hit, if any such hit was placed
- and, possibly, who placed the first hit at all.

Glock 45 (9mm), RMR 6 adj LED, CH plate, HL1 streamlight, with Alien gear duty holster LVL III.

Same setup on G19.

Been running for a few months, did a Red Dot 8 hour class, helped a lot.

Presentation is key, focus on the target, practice and practice, the more you work it the better you get. Huge improvement for distance as well.

Like anything, the more you put into it the more you get.

Guys, why are we arguing about this? Please let's don't derail this thread (which I was finding quite informative) or get it locked.

I've been doing some research on RDSs, and it appears that the Holosun 407c/507c use the same footprint as the RMR. Since I'm going to be out of pocket on this, I'm wondering if it's a bad strategy to buy the Holosun up front with the intent of moving to the RMR down the road if I decide I like the RDS thing...and ultimately if the brass decides to allow it.

Also, I think I saw somewhere earlier in this thread (or maybe a different one) that some individual officers are actually opting for the Holosun over the Trijicon. I have a hard time wrapping my head around why that might be, but I'd be interested to hear thoughts on that from those with more experience in the topic.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
For those of you who have transitioned to handgun RDS for duty, how did that come about? Was it driven by the road guys, the instructors, or did it come down from the top? If there was opposition, how did you work through that?

The big hurdles I see for us are the cost, as well as maybe a little bit of the "back in my day" mentality. I also can forsee the technical and reliability arguments coming up, which I think this thread has pretty well addressed.

I'm pretty sure I can get our road supervisor on board...he'd expressed an interest in them 5 or 6 years ago before the tech had even matured to where it's at now. But l still need to get my hands on one and spend some time with it before I can even bring it up.

Ours was a slow transition. One of my guys asked me to do a study of RDS for duty, and I'll have to admit I was one of those "back in my day we used irons..." guys.

After trying them, I was won over...they work. The world changes, you'd better keep up with it. These are new tools that make our people better.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

I've been doing some research on RDSs, and it appears that the Holosun 407c/507c use the same footprint as the RMR. Since I'm going to be out of pocket on this, I'm wondering if it's a bad strategy to buy the Holosun up front with the intent of moving to the RMR down the road if I decide I like the RDS thing...and ultimately if the brass decides to allow it.

Also, I think I saw somewhere earlier in this thread (or maybe a different one) that some individual officers are actually opting for the Holosun over the Trijicon. I have a hard time wrapping my head around why that might be, but I'd be interested to hear thoughts on that from those with more experience in the topic.

I'm in that crowd, also. I've been using MRDS on pistols since 2014. I exclusively used RMR until about a year ago when I got a few Holosun 507s and a 508T. No experience with the 407. The 507 and 508 are quite a bit easier to use for me and just as durable. The bigger window and ring reticle really help with acquisition.

If you have any concern about fogging or water on the lens, the answer is Cat Crap.. I reapply every month or so.

Don't buy the Holosun so you can "move up" to an RMR. Buy a Holosun because it is [I] at least [/] on the same level, particularly the V2.

And maybe avoid like the plague the holosun because of where its made.

Well, once again Sigforum has cost me money. Admittedly, I was already on the fence, but you guys pushed me over the edge. I ordered an RMR today from DaBigBR...he had a deal in the classifieds that was just too good to pass up. But just so you know, my wife hates you guys .

I e-mailed maple leaf yesterday q to ask about milling my slide, but haven't heard back. Based on their website, it looks like they may be pretty swamped right now. I'm going to give them a couple more days, but if that doesn't work out, does anybody else have a good, affordable slide milling outfit that they can recommend?

92,

I had a Glock 19 slide milled by Battle Werx last fall. I just got my RMR mounted and shot it this week. The milking job seems solid, so far so good.