I purchased my first P320 back in 2014. I was a jam-o-matic.
Mine also had the famous "trigger slap" issue. After a magazine or two, my trigger finger had the same throbbing feeling you get after someone thumps your ear in 10 degree weather. Anyone here that had an older brother/cousin/neighbor can relate.

This is a pic of that POS before I got rid of it.
https://imgur.com/a/rS4Cbc8

Years passed before I purchased another one. My son has a couple of them that worked well. After having a chance to shoot his pistols, I decided by buy another one. It was a P320 Compact. It has been 100% reliable and with no trigger slap issues. It was a big improvement over the org. pistols. It is very accurate with 147 gr. ammo. Not so much with 124 gr.

I guess some people feel the need to defend "their choice" or Sig. "The trigger must be pulled..." parroting Sig talking points. Yea, no shit. Even Sig has changed it from being pulled to the rear to "the trigger being actuated". I have my opinions on why and what that is about. Some don't like facts.

Others are emotional because they see Sig obfuscating, lawyering up, blame storming instead of being concerned with the safety of the user. All in an effort to not lose $.

Some of us base our opinions on our experiences, which are all different.
Some will approach those opinions with curiosity, others with innuendo, assumptions on intent and distortions of facts and absolutism. Like Sig and their response to criticism. Someone get them a nipple.

Some are quick to blame the gun, and some are quick to assume the gun is fine. Because the AF pressed charges, oblivious to the facts that have yet to be determined or revealed or a conviction.

If so, why do you care? go ahead carry your P320.
Or you just trying to build it up because you'll lose your ass on a sale? $$

Yea, just like Sig, it probably all comes down to the Bennys.

I say this cuz I care.
If you want a safer handgun, get something else.
If you want a better trigger, get a Walther or work on your skillz.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
Just the Michigan State Police report that's buried somewhere that was tested by the FBI and were able to get the striker to fire with fulling pressing the trigger about 6 or 7 times out of 50.

This was the 1st round of testing that was found to be flawed testing.

The FBI did a second round of testing with a proper test fixture and could not detonate a test primer after 565 attempts and using 19 different striker assemblies.
The MSP has reportedly continued carrying the P320.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:
I guess some people feel the need to defend "their choice" or Sig. "The trigger must be pulled..." parroting Sig talking points. Yea, no shit. Even Sig has changed it from being pulled to the rear to "the trigger being actuated". I have my opinions on why and what that is about. Some don't like facts.

Well, I'm one of those parrots, I guess, although I don't consider myself as such. I've long maintained that I believe all these discharges are as a result of the trigger being pulled and that it's just a matter of how that happens.

Let's get something straight, though- I have not said this in order to be in sync with SIG-Sauer's official position. My opinion on the matter is based upon the available data, and my experience with striker-fired pistols. I am neither for nor against SIG-Sauer in this matter. I will say that I think the entire affair is sad and wish it weren't happening, but that doesn't make me a fanboy and I do not steer the tiller of this forum to chart the same course as SIG-Sauer. The truth is what we seek here, and you should know this quite well by now; everyone should. We answer to no one, seek to appease no one.

Now, you have made yourself rather conspicuous in this thread and quite frankly, you do not exhibit the impartiality which would benefit your argument on the subject. The truth can speak for itself. Your input is welcome, but I am suggesting to you that you would be doing yourself a favor by dialing the rhetoric back a bit.

I never claimed any impartiality.
I won't stop calling out people being "loose" with the facts, especially when they are directing them at me, making assumptions of my motives.

The gun is not safe for many reasons, and Sig doesn't care for a buck.

quote:

If so, why do you care? go ahead carry your P320.
Or you just trying to build it up because you'll lose your ass on a sale? $$

I don't care. I just think it's odd that there are a lot of really angry people out there who have never been hurt by a P320. Angry enough to argue with other people about it on the internet. The only way it effects me is that it takes time to parse through pages of drama and hours of video commentary trying to glean what few actual facts are buried in it.

I'm not trying to build anything up, or defend Sig at all. I want an explanation for the problem, if there is one. If that's not clearly apparent to you from my posts in this thread, I'm not sure how else to demonstrate that.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:
I won't stop calling out people being "loose" with the facts, especially when they are directing them at me, making assumptions of my motives.

You're going to follow my directives or you're going to be subject to disciplinary action.

Now, I took the time to clarify matters and to offer you a bit of good advice, when in fact I'm not obligated to do either. I could just tell you to cool it. You need to take a minute before you post again.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
Just the Michigan State Police report that's buried somewhere that was tested by the FBI and were able to get the striker to fire with fulling pressing the trigger about 6 or 7 times out of 50.

When making this statement, it would be essential to note that the current information is the FBI cut a hole in the side to inspect a spring during the test and as a result, the test was not an accurate representation of what could happen. The spring was not being supported. The current information is that after a new jig was built to do the same test without the hole, the FBI could not get the gun to fire after more than 500 tries.

Granted, this is what SIG is saying. There is no follow-up FBI report that was leaked.

Isn't it interesting that the FBI report from last summer was leaked well [u]after[/u] the FBI did the follow-up testing? Why hasn't the follow-up report been "leaked?" We know the government selectively leaks stuff all the time. Why not the follow-up report?

For my part, I took the time to put in a FOIA request with the FBI the other day, requesting the follow-up report details and communications between the FBI test group and SIG. We'll see if that goes anywhere.

I'll try to dial the rhetoric back a little.

quote:

For my part, I took the time to put in a FOIA request with the FBI the other day, requesting the follow-up report details and communications between the FBI test group and SIG. We'll see if that goes anywhere.

I'd be very interested to see that when/if you get it.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:
I'll try to dial the rhetoric back a little.

Thank you

quote:

Originally posted by steve495:
Isn't it interesting that the FBI report from last summer was leaked well [u]after[/u] the FBI did the follow-up testing? Why hasn't the follow-up report been "leaked?" We know the government selectively leaks stuff all the time. Why not the follow-up report?

For my part, I took the time to put in a FOIA request with the FBI the other day, requesting the follow-up report details and communications between the FBI test group and SIG. We'll see if that goes anywhere.

Unless you consider FOIA requests to be leaks, there was no leaked report.

I'd assume that the reason the SIG-mentioned report wasn't also FOIA'd is because nobody knew that it existed at the time, and it doesn't appear to have been given to the agency that the first report was FOIA'd from.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Just curious- have any of the youtubers eaten any crow publicly over the false story of how the Airman was shot?

I've been looking but haven't seen anything yet where they had retracted a previous statement. One or two who remained neutral and objective HAVE posted updates reporting the arrest though...

Edit to add: I now see that your question has already been answered. I really SHOULD read through an entire thread BEFORE commenting, but ones like this move so fast that it could be several pages later, and by then I've forgotten to go back and answer. One of the many reasons I have such a low post count considering the time I've been here... I read a lot, but post very little since what I want to say has normally already been said, often more than once!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Watson:
Is there a published forensic engineering type report on an actual failed gun? Know of a forensic report kept secret by lawyers?

I do not credit the Youtube Engineers poking at random guns with much.

Yeah, I would like to know that also! While I have strong reservations against the P320 at this time because I *personally* feel the design is simply poor/too complex, AND I simply do not trust MIM parts in many places where SIG uses them on this pistol such as the striker safety lever (should be stamped from steel sheet), and the sear (should be machined from bar stock for nice, crisp edges), I still want to see/read some actual FACTS, not internet/YouTube conjecture.

As an aside, I recently made the statement that I would never own a P320 or any of its variants, especially after the way Sig has handled this, but after more thought I might be inclined to retract that statement... at least somewhat.

As more and more evidence comes out (or doesn't) regarding this whole debacle and proving that it's all operator error and not a defect in the pistol itself, then IF I happened to find an M18 used in my dealer's showcase, and IF the price was really low, then I might just snag one as a range toy. Being used, SIG wouldn't make any profit off of my purchase, and so far there has been no definitive PROOF that the P320s are just "going off" by themselves. I WOULD do a detailed inspection of all related internal components before use, and correct any problems that might be found. Just my opinion...

One final thought: I STILL haven't bought a Glock, though this mess has me thinking about it more than in the past!

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
<<snip>>
Now, I took the time to clarify matters and to offer you a bit of good advice, when in fact I'm not obligated to do either. I could just tell you to cool it. You need to take a minute before you post again.

I'm not sure if I've stated it recently, but I really, REALLY appreciate the way you keep control of this forum! You are the reason it's the best!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bronicabill,

Damn. I have a P320c that I do like. But, I guess selling it to buy another Glock isn’t going to happen anytime soon.

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:

I do not credit the Youtube Engineers poking at random guns with much.

Yeah, I would like to know that also! While I have strong reservations against the P320 at this time because I *personally* feel the design is simply poor/too complex, AND I simply do not trust MIM parts in many places where SIG uses them on this pistol such as the striker safety lever (should be stamped from steel sheet), and the sear (should be machined from bar stock for nice, crisp edges), I still want to see/read some actual FACTS, not internet/YouTube conjecture.
[/QUOTE]

It is my understanding that the P320 striker safety lever is not MIM.
Apparently, early in production they were using MIM levers and went to a stamped lever years ago.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DirectDrive,

As I expected they did it. From their Facebook page.

Out of an abundance of caution, the Mat-Valley Sportsmans Range Board of Directors has voted to ban the Sig Sauer P320 pistol in any caliber (including X-Ten) effective immediately.

Any sales figures on the 320 since this news? A quick gunbroker search has over 10000 listings of P320, and the prices sure don't seem like they're giving them away.

Is this a case like so many others where internet forums make something out to be a much bigger deal than the rest of the world? I know plenty of gun dudes across the age spectrum, many of them don't spend any time reading about this stuff online

I have no clue what the civilian sales numbers actually are, but SIG makes a lot of guns and unless a court orders them to make a change, i doubt you'll see it happen

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:

I do not credit the Youtube Engineers poking at random guns with much.

<<snip>>
It is my understanding that the P320 striker safety lever is not MIM.
Apparently, early in production they were using MIM levers and went to a stamped lever years ago.

Your quote attributes a post to me that was actually made by Jim Watson.

Regarding the striker safety lever, maybe I used the wrong terminology for the part I had in mind. Either way, long thin metal parts should be stamped or machined and not MIM to prevent having any voids in the part that can/will lead to breakage.

I could be wrong, put the part that prevents the striker from striking a cartridge’s primer is stamped steel. The part that moves that part out of the way allowing the striker to strike a cartridge‘a primer may be MIM and it seems the worst that would happen if it broke would be the gun doesn’t fire.

I have this coming. I’ll be careful.



TJ